So Johnson has 30 days to come up with an alternative to the backstop......

[Bearbehind]

This will be interesting to watch!

Exactly @MysteryTripAgain . Which is why something Brexit'y that avoids the chaos of No Deal is worth trying.

bellini I’ve just responded to that on the other thread.

I have to say I’m throughly disheartened that such an engaged Remainer doesn’t get this.

Which is why something Brexit'y that avoids the chaos of No Deal is worth trying.

Anything that avoids no deal which is possible in practice and hasn’t been tried before is worth trying

Right now there’s nothing

What don't I get? I don't think the Tory majority can hold. It is a minority government after all. I think there are enough Labour MPs who would support the suggestion. And you don't know until you try.
I am old. I am a Parliament watcher. This one MP, skin of the teeth majority is worthless. As is Corbyn's ability to whip the PLP.

That was just such an ill-informed and stupid reason to vote leave

It is estimated that 1 in 5 (20% or 14 Million) in the UK lives in poverty. A staggering figure for a Country that is supposedly the 5th richest in the World.

2016 referendum turnout was 72%. Apply that to 13 million in poverty equates to over 10 million votes. Impossible to know if all those who are classed as living in poverty voted leave, but a lot of potential votes. Even if only half it is 5 million. Almost a third of the total leave vote?

Impossible to know if all those who are classed as living in poverty voted leave

Unfortunately, by voting leave, they voted for worsening poverty. Voting for such a monumental change as a protest is not a sensible course of action.

This one MP, skin of the teeth majority is worthless

Except it’s not worthless at all - it’s what keeping them in power.

It might be unstable but it’s not worthless.

You say it's not all about this vote, it's not all about this Parliament either. Johnson is trying to bring people back from the Brexit Party. No one in mainland UK gives that much of a shit about NI. As evidenced by the surprise when GFA was raised as an issue. And yes, i banged on about GFA (different user name) prior to the referendum.because it was obvious to me there was a problem. I wasn't the only on one here either.

You’re looking at this from too far the other way though - you’re only thinking about the GFA.

And no matter how much you’d like it to be the only issue, it’s not - far from it

It it's the only issue preventing Brexit.

It’s not - it’s the fact our red lines are incompatible with the type of Brexit Leavers want.

Remove FOM and this all goes away. And that’s as unlikely as ‘your’ suggestion.

Theresa May went round and round in ever decreasing circles until she went down the plug hole.

Boris appears not to have learnt from this and is now circling the plughole himself. Maybe he thinks he can magically square the circle by using threats, bluffing or brute force.

I’m not sure I can take my plug hole analogy any further, to be honest.

But given yesterday's report about incorrect EU immigration figures, I think Brexiteers might consider shoving NI into a little corner where it doesn't make any noise is a price worth paying to end FOM.

I think Brexiteers might consider shoving NI into a little corner where it doesn't make any noise is a price worth paying to end FOM.

But that doesn’t make it the right thing to do, especially for Scotland.

And Scotland is a different issue. It doesn't have the history of terrorist violence blighting it. It can make its own arguments and make a choice.

I think you needed to go with something more plug hole related than ‘squaring the circle’ cattenburg 😂

Look, you think the Union must remain fully and unequivocally intact like it "was". I think it can be "redone" to get Brexit and avoid No Deal.
If you believe in tbe mystical and sacred Union, that is your Unicorn.

If you believe in tbe mystical and sacred Union, that is your Unicorn.

Well it’s not really given the answer to this isn’t just lopping off the bits of the UK that are causing the problems here.

Brexit wasn’t about dividing up the UK it was about leaving the EU

The former is not an acceptable consequence of the latter for many, particularly when it’s the Conservatives and UNIONISTS who are in government.

1. I'm not proposing lobbing off bits of the UK.
2. The DUP are not in government. If their C&S agreement was worth anything we would be out by now via WA or we would have a different Parliament and a different government.

I'm not proposing lobbing off bits of the UK.

Of course you are.

NI would be different to the rest of the UK and Scotland would want t follow.

How on earth do you not see this as dividing the nation?

And we aren't divided now?

The DUP are not in government. If their C&S agreement was worth anything we would be out by now via WA or we would have a different Parliament and a different government.

You really don’t get this do you? Whatever you think of them the DUP are not prepared to compromise their beliefs even for the C&S Agreement

That’s exactly why the Tories can’t propose it again.

Even if this got cross party support, the Tories would have to call a GE which they are by no means guaranteed of winning.

Right now a majority of 1 is better than that.

And we aren't divided now?

Oh my days - I think I’m going to have to leave this for now. I’m simply astounded by the naivety.

Of course I get it. I just think that there is scope for manoeuvre in Parliament outside the C&S to get an orderly Brexit through.
But you don't, you are happy for No Deal and should just say so.

Lots of concrete options in Johnson's speech there. Where there's a will there's a way and all that. Was just waiting for many a mickle makes a muckle or some other jolly but empty phrase.