So Johnson has 30 days to come up with an alternative to the backstop......

[Bearbehind]

This will be interesting to watch!

bellini I think itll bring reunification a lot closer than it has been but I dont think thats a bad idea, although I live in Wales and there is a long long way before the call for Wales independence gathers more momentum which Scotland leaving will be a welcome boost

I disagree. It is doable and I will not stop promoting it on here just because you disagree. You are the only voice of disagreement I have heard. I have even had some of our Leaver stalwarts accepting it as possible.

I suspect most other people just roll their eyes when they see you raise it time and time again.

I really don’t understand what you are hoping to achieve by ‘promoting it’

No one on here can do anything about it.

And the Tories, who are the only people who can, won’t because they’ll lose their majority.

What is far more likely is a fudge which clams the WA has been amended and that passes.

So those who voted for reasons that had nothing to do with the EU then

It was meant as a fuck you to Cameron and Osbournes austerity and thats what it did, its going to make it harder for them once we leave but thats their decision to own and certainly theyre going to suffer a lot more under the Tory's version of Brexit

GFA has an option for reunification if the majority want it AND ROI agrees. ROI has removed territorial claim to NI in its constitution via a properly organised referendum. This is how constitutional change happens in ROI.
If we make NI a special economic zone, it is likely to be more prosperous in that format than as part of ROI. I would argue it delays the majority in NI wanting reunification.

@JustAnotherPoster00 - I'm Irish so have no skin in the game when it comes to UK elections/referenda. As an outsider, I would say the tory government are a pack of idiots who are quite happy to trample over the less well off.

but tories voting to remain after voting for the party that promised the referendum probably have more to answer for than any other group in my opinion

Your maths are very skewed if you are managing to blame this on
tory voters. 36.9% of a 66.2% turnout voted tory in 2015. That's 24.43% of registered voters.

51.9% of a 72.2% turnout voted for brexit. That is 37.47% of registered voters. Add on to that the 27.8% who didn't vote, although we can subtract maybe 5% of those who were denied a vote as too long outside UK or postal ballot not arriving etc, or who were unable to vote for genuine reasons. That gives us 60.2% of registered voters who either voted directly for brexit or, by not voting, were clearly happy to go with the majority opinion of those who voted.

So 60.2% of registered voters effectively voted for brexit as opposed to 24.43% of registered voters who voted for the tories. I reckon plenty of blame to go around.

Had the Tories not got into power in 2015 there wouldnt have been a referendum

But they did and there was a referendum. Can't see the benefit of comments about what might happen in the future had what happened in the past been different.

If UK did not have national service in late 50s my mother and father would never have met and I would not be here.

"I suspect most other people just roll their eyes when they see you raise it time and time again."
I'm sure they do. And they can. But I don't see it as less constructive than pointing out that Leave voters are thick duped racists. I'm not saying you do that but that's what Leavers think we do. If we shake them with an actual practical option for an orderly Brexit, they are stumped. And then maybe they will think a bit harder about the No Deal is the only way nonsense.

whyamidoingthis

I stand corrected thank you

FGS bellini your stance that this is the solution is as ridiculous as Leavers insisting the EU are just going to cave in.

Look at the other thread we’re on, others don’t agree with you either.

But they did and there was a referendum. Can't see the benefit of comments about what might happen in the future had what happened in the past been different.

I only make the point because of Bear's constant faux innocence of how we got here, she voted for us to get here but I take whyamidoingthis stats and will modify my opinion based on facts given

No one expected leave to actually win the referendum

Ah yes. Cameron and his ultimate arrogance.

"The peasants from the neglected parts of the UK will never dare vote against the establishment"

If we shake them with an actual practical option for an orderly Brexit, they are stumped. And then maybe they will think a bit harder about the No Deal is the only way nonsense.

If you honestly believe that after 3 years you’ve not learned much.

I'm not sure why you think having a go at me is helpful. If you have something better than the nihilism you seem to favour, I am all ears.
On the other thread, people are exploring the idea. Which is what I hope for.

The only options right now, in my mind, are bellini's suggestion of border in the sea, no deal or what Corbyn's offering tick tock

I only make the point because of Bear's constant faux innocence of how we got here, she voted for us to get

What ‘faux innocence’?

You just like following me around and bringing that up at regular intervals when I’ve never denied it.

If you honestly believe I’m more to blame for this mess for previously voting Tory than a northern labour supporter who voted Leave to give the Tories a shot across the bows then I’m never going to convince you otherwise.

If you really think people who actively chose leave for reasons that had nothing to do with the EU are less to blame than me here then your way of thinking is never going to align to mine.

It was meant as a fuck you to Cameron and Osbournes austerity and thats what it did

I am from the North and I would agree with that view

I’m not sure why you think having a go at me is helpful.

It’s not helpful, but it’s also not helpful to keep banging on about a solution that has already been rejected.

If you have something better than the nihilism you seem to favour, I am all ears.

I don’t - the country is simply too divided. Remain haven’t convinced anyone that leaving is a bad idea so we just need to get on with it and prove it

On the other thread, people are exploring the idea. Which is what I hope for

They’re not, they said what I have, which is that it will break up the union and won’t get through parliament anyway

I am also "from the North" and I live in Tommy Robinson country - new stickers just gone up round our way.
I don't want those twats to win. People round here are better than that. Perhaps if you lived on my street you wouldn't be so dismissive of an anti- No Deal suggestion.

@JustAnotherPoster00 - It was meant as a fuck you to Cameron and Osbournes austerity and thats what it did, its going to make it harder for them once we leave but thats their decision to own and certainly theyre going to suffer a lot more under the Tory's version of Brexit

That was just such an ill-informed and stupid reason to vote leave. I think part of the problem is you don't really do referenda in the UK so some people didn't really understand. I remember seeing people interviewed after the result saying that they voted leave as a protest and, as they were in a predominantly remain area, they didn't think their vote would matter!

We have pretty regular referenda as any change to our constitution requires one. You do get occasional protest votes but they tend to either be for unimportant stuff or a vote for the status quo. We voted no to Mastricht initially as we felt it wasn't clear. Ireland sought clarifications from the EU and re-ran it successfully. For complex issues (e.g. the recent abortion referendum) we use a citizen's assembly. The potential legislation was specified before the vote so we knew exactly what the consequences of our vote would be.

In the event we get close to a vote for reunification, a people's assembly will be the first step. By the time we get to a referendum we will know exactly what we are voting for and have a good idea of the consequences of that vote. The government will know what compromises are palatable to the population in order to bring the unionists on board. Hopefully, as a result of the GFA and cross-border bodies, a similar process will take place up north.

It has not been tested in Parliament. You and your new friend @Doubletrouble99 have rejected it. Last time I looked, you weren't everyone.

I only make the point because of Bear's constant faux innocence of how we got here

In defense to Bear I think many of those who voted Tory in 2015 did so for reasons not connected to Brexit as referendum date was not set and a vote at a GE in 2015 was based on many other subjects.

bellini what part of ‘the Tories will not bring it before parliament because they would lose their majority’ do you not understand?

Exactly mystery

The referendum wasn’t even on my radar then.

just thinks that everyone who’s ever voted Tory is elitist scum though, even without the referendum

The part which says they can get enough cross party support for something that avoids No Deal and delivers Brexit.

Perhaps if you lived on my street you wouldn't be so dismissive of an anti- No Deal suggestion

I am from a mining village that was shutdown in 1984. Many voted leave as a way of objecting to Conservative Government. Many have been unemployed since 1984 and have nothing to lose from Brexit, deal or no deal.

The North South divide has favoured the South more. So maybe those in the North thought that Brexit would topple the South in terms of wealth so they too could experience the same as those in the North?