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Brexit

Westminstenders: Promises, promises

962 replies

RedToothBrush · 05/08/2019 23:26

Today polling showed that there was a majority in Scotland who support Independence. The 'Boris Bounce' really isn't universal. And this is a firm sign all is not well.

There is talk tonight that Johnson is planning to stay on as PM even if he loses a vote of no confidence in order to force No Deal through and prevent a government of national unity. Instead he would call a 'people v politicians' general election to be held shortly after we'd left the EU.

Johnson's willingness to defy parliament should not be discounted and should be taken seriously. Its highly likely in one way or another. No deal is technically illegal, but its also the default. This does not seem to be fully recognised by remainers. But this is a man who lied and continued to lie. And there is every sign that he would be willing to cause some sort of constitutional crisis. Especially if he really is like Trump. This is what authoritarians do - defy convention and rip up the rule book - because the powers that are suppose to hold them to account are too weak to hold them to account. Something that Johnson has already proved time and again. He has no respect for others.

All the signs are Johnson is in fully into campaigning for a GE already. He's touring the country and ignoring Europe. He's offering money for the NHS - its open to debate whether this is new money - the optics on this are all down to what you want to believe. Those who want Johnson will believe the promise; those who don't won't.

The penny hasn't fully dropped in parliament. There is talk of a vote of no confidence being called by Labour 'at the earliest opportunity' in September. The reality is its too little too late and is unlikely to work to have the desired effect and inside will play right into Johnson's plan. The failure of the Opposition to spot what he was likely to do, has been the story of the last 3 years, where Remainers have been reactionary and unable to anticipate what would happen next. Their lack of imagination and inability to look beyond their own rhetoric has been their undoing and may cost us all in the long run.

Meanwhile in Brussels, the EU unlike our Parliament have recognised the inevitability of no deal and if Johnson wants no deal there is no way to stop it. And that he has no inclination whatsoever to negotiate.

The expectation is still that the EU will have the backstop and the Brexit Bill of £39 billion as the requirement for the opening of trade talks if we no deal.

Which leaves up shit creek.

At the same time the new trade minister Liz Truss is full on libertarian and talking to the US with this in mind.

That would mean a bonfire of rights and standards which will horrify many. That means goodbye to workers rights, food standards and data protection.

The tech giants have the ears of Washington so British ideas of a tax on them are being seen as a block on a US trade deal.

It comes as the UK has joined a US coalition to protect ships in the Gulf - something we were originally given a snub against, and led to Jeremy Hunt saying we would join a European led force. Its not clear what, who or how the US uturn has come about...

Meanwhile our summer holidays are all getting more expensive... and this is just the start of it.

This is real. This isn't a bluff.

OP posts:
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tobee · 06/08/2019 15:16

Woman when googling she called herself a moron for nominating him ShockGrin

OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 06/08/2019 15:16

Thanks red

woman19 · 06/08/2019 15:17

Margaret Beckett is 3 years younger than Ken Clarke
She's a keen caravanner; clearly keeps her young. Grin

Peregrina · 06/08/2019 15:24

Margaret Beckett stood against Blair and Prescott for leader.

I had either not registered that or forgotten. It's a pity, she would have been more genuine than Blair was.

But then, lots of things in life have been a pity, e.g. if Al Gore had won the Presidency, I doubt whether the world would have been in the same mess as now.

tobee · 06/08/2019 15:25

I know! I always think Margeret Beckett = caravan

Hazardtired · 06/08/2019 15:26

I'm mentally drafting email to my labour MP along the lines of if a VoNC is won and you lot are forming a make shift government do not get your boxers in a twist over having JC or even a Labour leader. Just about anyone will do as an interim as long as they lead the charge against no deal. It's not forever. I still can't type yet without swearing though so just mulling it over until FFS you cunts eases off.

I'll take the cat as PM. A chair. A throw cushion. Card board cut out. A packet of ham. Anything.

Morally it should be NS! Only leader of a party with actual brains in her actual head and actually behaves like it. it wont be NS

I had to Google Cherry I agree she's a credit!

tobee · 06/08/2019 15:27

There's a good thread (although not fast moving) on history club boards with a "what if" premise.

tobee · 06/08/2019 15:28

Here:-

Westminstenders: Promises, promises
Peregrina · 06/08/2019 15:46

I do sometimes wonder what would have happened if Britain hadn't declared war on Germany when they invaded Poland. I suspect that this was what Hitler was banking on. Would we have kept on to our Empire, or was its loss inevitable?

DGRossetti · 06/08/2019 15:51

I'm mentally drafting email to my labour MP

As things are biting more on those least able to cope with it all, I'd struggle with this. For many people - the most vulnerable and overlooked - their MP is a desperate last resort, and it seems increasingly unfair to flood MPs now and risk drowning them out or delaying their response.. Especially on the basis that if MPs haven't got it now, they never will.

Hazardtired · 06/08/2019 16:01

dg depends on MP. 1) My local MP seems to form opinions based on volume of emails. 2) he has clearly stated, publically, he is not the person to contact if your in a crisis, he doesn't do housing issues, immigration issues, etc. He's an odd one...I kinda thought MPs were there as a last resort but he'll tell you to fuck off. Also his staff tweet anti immigration stuff...

Icantreachthepretzels · 06/08/2019 16:06

I am worried that the real stumbling block of a govt of unity is Corbyn. If I were trying to talk him round I would tell him that he had to stay as leader of the labour party - but couldn't get his hands grubby in a coalition cabinet as the purists among his voters wouldn't like it. He should throw his competent subordinate shadow cabinet members under the bus and make them take high profile places in the cabinet and do the actual work. Either the coalition will be held against them (the Nick Clegg effect) and they will suffer but he won't - as he kept his hands clean. Or everyone will be happy and their work done in the coalition will boost labour's credibility as a party ready to take power - and he can reap the rewards.

If they were really clever, they'd get one of the tories to hold the position of leader of conservatives - separate from the (presumably tory) PM That way he would have an equal and opposite number and thus legitimise his role: two leaders waiting to fight the non-brexit based election once the cabinet has sorted brexit.

It doesn't have to be real - it doesn't even have to stand up to scrutiny. Magic Grandpa just needs to believe it.

LouiseCollins28 · 06/08/2019 16:07

I doubt the long term consequences for the Empire would have been very different tbh, had Britain stood aside as Hitler invaded Poland in September 1939.

By May of 1940 Germany was moving through Luxembourg Belgium and heading for France. Even if Britain had been content to see Poland and Norway fall, by the time Belgium and France were threatened I've no doubt we'd have been at war just the same.

The war cost Britain what it cost, and a bankrupt Britain in 1946 would no more have been able to defend her Empire than she proved to be in the end.

The issues that caused the initial breakup, the demand for independence in India, for example, would still have been there too.

American industry, turbo charged by their war effort and at the same time utterly unaffected by the material destruction wrought throughout Europe would still have made the USA the pre-eminent post war economy I think.

DGRossetti · 06/08/2019 16:08

Well my MP has replied - in great detail - over 5 times since 2017 to my queries and comments. It would be hard to believe they hadn't got the message by now.

By contrast, the local Labour party seems to have twinned itself with a nearby black hole. Not a peep from them despite numerous emails - both individual and copies that went to my MP. So they can go and fuck themselves. (If I were so minded, I could have tried to trick them by making one email about a potential donation to see if they reply - I'm guessing seeing "Brexit" in the text was enough to send to /dev/null).

I've nothing whatsoever against my MP who (from the email alerts I get from TWFY) seems to be hard working, conscientious and genuinely representing all the constituency. So it would be a shame to have to vote for a candidate who is none of those. But as things stand with Labour, that's what's going to happen.

prettybird · 06/08/2019 16:13

I think the loss of the Empire was already inevitable: by WW2, only really India was left and it was on its way out (if anything, the war delayed it leaving).

Canada, NZ and Australia had already gone, either in practice or effectively, with only remnants of the Commonwealth (like "Governor-General) remaining.

It's just that England the UK didn't (and still doesn't Hmm) recognise it, then or now, wasted spent the Marshall Plan on trying to retain and supporting sterling Sad - and still thinks that the rest of the world should know who we are Hmm

placemats · 06/08/2019 16:19

I would have thought that the Brexiteers would be off running around the motorways desperately trying to get to their British home holiday destination at this very moment in time.

Or are they waiting for the dam to burst the return to school days so they can piddle off in their big SUV they can't drive properly to sit by roadsides eating lukewarm picnics.

DGRossetti · 06/08/2019 16:23

Personally, my view of WW2 and the UKs part in it, was that our job (and a job done damn well) was to stall the Nazis until the awesome US war machine was up to speed.

It was patently obvious to the more intelligent US observers (who luckily for the US were in power, unlike now) that Germany would not stop at Europe. And British history doesn't really explain the US-Japanese relationship in enough depth to highlight the suspicions and worries the US had about Japan which (correctly) foresaw the Axis.

Nuclear research had already hinted at the military potential of atomic power, and the US was well aware pre-war that a Bomb was possible - and that Germany were working on one.

The nightmare scenario (stuff of "Man in the High Castle" Grin) would have been a successful Nazi bomb that could have been delivered to a US seaboard (eastern being most likely) by a submarine. Although as the war progressed and the V programme started to take off Grin), it's not beyond the bounds of possibility the Nazis could have hit the US from Europe. Which could have led to the US immediately withdrawing from the war, if not surrendering to the Nazis. Not as crackpot as it seems if the first bomb had hit (say) New York City.

All interesting speculation, of course, and totally unproveable.

American industry, turbo charged by their war effort

and their investment in Nazi Germany, don't forget ....

www.theguardian.com/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldwar

DGRossetti · 06/08/2019 16:26

I would have thought that the Brexiteers would be off running around the motorways desperately trying to get to their British home holiday destination at this very moment in time.

I think those are the 20% Brexiteers - the ones that have hoodwinked the 80% into voting for Brexit with carrots made of frozen piss.

placemats · 06/08/2019 16:32

'carrots made of frozen piss' is my new phrase (though a bit gross that your piss would be so concentrated it would be orange in colour).

Hoooo · 06/08/2019 16:32

Noreply to any labour mp or mep i have contacted.

Nor the co operative party told you I was desperate

WhatdoImean · 06/08/2019 16:36

Latest from the Guardian... Gove accusing the EU of refusing to negotiate... This after a) BoJo announced that he would not accept ANY deal with the Irish backstop b) our "Chief negotiator" told the EU that the BoJo government is now actively aiming for a no-deal exit and c) The EU team was disbanded some time ago after their 3-year marathon to actually get a deal that met the UK red lines.

I would laugh if I had the strength; instead, all I can do sit in a corner and go "wibble"

DGRossetti · 06/08/2019 16:37

Noreply to any labour mp or mep i have contacted.

How do you try ?

I like www.writetothem.com/ as it logs your email and follows up. All of which then gets aggregated into statistics per MP, so you can see who is doing their job, or not.

(I suspect when sites like that first emerged, MPs became very pissed off, until they realised that the main criteria for being elected was rosette colour)

DGRossetti · 06/08/2019 16:38

.

Westminstenders: Promises, promises
yolofish · 06/08/2019 16:40

I cannot understand the sheer bloody arrogance and aggression of those allegedly in charge of the UK. My DM, died aged 88 and a remainer to the last, used to say 'you catch more flies with honey'...

tobee · 06/08/2019 16:41

I know the answer to this question really but it's still worth asking, but didn't Johnson say he was going to get a fabulous deal only a minute ago?

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