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Brexit

Westminstenders: Promises, promises

962 replies

RedToothBrush · 05/08/2019 23:26

Today polling showed that there was a majority in Scotland who support Independence. The 'Boris Bounce' really isn't universal. And this is a firm sign all is not well.

There is talk tonight that Johnson is planning to stay on as PM even if he loses a vote of no confidence in order to force No Deal through and prevent a government of national unity. Instead he would call a 'people v politicians' general election to be held shortly after we'd left the EU.

Johnson's willingness to defy parliament should not be discounted and should be taken seriously. Its highly likely in one way or another. No deal is technically illegal, but its also the default. This does not seem to be fully recognised by remainers. But this is a man who lied and continued to lie. And there is every sign that he would be willing to cause some sort of constitutional crisis. Especially if he really is like Trump. This is what authoritarians do - defy convention and rip up the rule book - because the powers that are suppose to hold them to account are too weak to hold them to account. Something that Johnson has already proved time and again. He has no respect for others.

All the signs are Johnson is in fully into campaigning for a GE already. He's touring the country and ignoring Europe. He's offering money for the NHS - its open to debate whether this is new money - the optics on this are all down to what you want to believe. Those who want Johnson will believe the promise; those who don't won't.

The penny hasn't fully dropped in parliament. There is talk of a vote of no confidence being called by Labour 'at the earliest opportunity' in September. The reality is its too little too late and is unlikely to work to have the desired effect and inside will play right into Johnson's plan. The failure of the Opposition to spot what he was likely to do, has been the story of the last 3 years, where Remainers have been reactionary and unable to anticipate what would happen next. Their lack of imagination and inability to look beyond their own rhetoric has been their undoing and may cost us all in the long run.

Meanwhile in Brussels, the EU unlike our Parliament have recognised the inevitability of no deal and if Johnson wants no deal there is no way to stop it. And that he has no inclination whatsoever to negotiate.

The expectation is still that the EU will have the backstop and the Brexit Bill of £39 billion as the requirement for the opening of trade talks if we no deal.

Which leaves up shit creek.

At the same time the new trade minister Liz Truss is full on libertarian and talking to the US with this in mind.

That would mean a bonfire of rights and standards which will horrify many. That means goodbye to workers rights, food standards and data protection.

The tech giants have the ears of Washington so British ideas of a tax on them are being seen as a block on a US trade deal.

It comes as the UK has joined a US coalition to protect ships in the Gulf - something we were originally given a snub against, and led to Jeremy Hunt saying we would join a European led force. Its not clear what, who or how the US uturn has come about...

Meanwhile our summer holidays are all getting more expensive... and this is just the start of it.

This is real. This isn't a bluff.

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BigChocFrenzy · 09/08/2019 16:20

"Liberal Democrats are Tories in disguise."

Rubbish
That's the Momentum line
and the Tories claim the LDems are too leftwing ...

The Ldems haven't been very effective, but they only have 13 seats in an HoC of 650.

They have however, been solidly Remain

BigChocFrenzy · 09/08/2019 16:21

The rebels are those who put their country before career and party
We'll have to see how many will do this - and if they are given an opportunity to do this

woman19 · 09/08/2019 16:31

"Liberal Democrats are Tories in disguise."

I see that as we have the luxury of living in an equitable, harmonious peaceful, rich, constitutionally sound country at the moment, Owen Jones and the lexistry are using their considerable intellects to attack the Liberal Democrats today.

Marvellous.

prettybird · 09/08/2019 16:36

It's the old trick (and both "main" parties try to use it) of trying to label the "threat" with something that they think will stick as an insult. Hmm

Labour still call the SNP "Tartan Tories" : they might have been 40 years ago but for at least the last 20 years they have been left wing and many members and supporters are ex-Labour Shock Indeed the SNP 2015 manifesto was to the left of Labour's Confused, according to Political Compass (perhaps not the 2017 one, but the SNP manifesto was still a left of centre one).

I suppose it should be seen as a compliment, that they are seen as a threat Wink

Peregrina · 09/08/2019 16:43

Some LibDems will be ex Tories, some are ex-Labour, especially those who came via the SDP.

But since the Tories have now lurched to the extreme right, personally I am happy that moderate Tories they are joining a pro-Remain party. I don't have any problem with the Tories who believe in Community either - which many local councillors did. OK they are no longer Tories but Heidi Allen, Sarah Wollaston - decent enough people and there must be many like that.

woman19 · 09/08/2019 16:49

A decimated opposition gave Hitler 13 years. Same trap being fallen into by so many now.

Lord what fools these partisans be.

placemats · 09/08/2019 16:58

I am Owen Jones nemesis Woman19 Grin I've left the Labour Party and now feel I can no longer vote for anyone!

I've stood for local elections and met some lovely Lib Dems but they ALWAYS voted with the Tories and I've had words and chats and I can't fall out BUT that memory always burns.

placemats · 09/08/2019 17:01

I am not a Momentum fan BigChoc It's why I left the Labour Party.

But. LibDems are Tories in disguise.

Peregrina · 09/08/2019 17:02

Same trap being fallen into by so many now.

Sickening isn't it? I wonder how many Germans back in the late 20s and early 30s thought "I don't like the way this is going, but what can I do?", which is what I feel now.

Eventually there will be a reckoning as there was with Hitler, but how many people are going to be damaged in the process?

placemats · 09/08/2019 17:02

And I hate it that my view is seen as that of Momentum.

Mistigri · 09/08/2019 17:04

But it is precisely the view of every single person I know who still supports Corbyn/Momentum.

LonelyTiredandLow · 09/08/2019 17:04

Agree - this is about more than party politics - we need to remain to reverse austerity and get our country back!

placemats · 09/08/2019 17:05

Godwin's Law.

It's a sensible and elegant solution that there be a reorganisation of the Parliamentary parties. And I would also add a call to Sinn Fein if Parliament is to be prorogued.

BigChocFrenzy · 09/08/2019 17:08

placemat the LDems you personally came across may have preferred Tory policies to Labour
That is not true nationally
and I don't expect to see it in the next Ldem manifesto.

Competence is another matter, as the ambitious politicians normally join other parties

Cable was past it and Swinson has never had it - but at least she's not as dim as Corbyn

placemats · 09/08/2019 17:09

So?

I have far more radical viewpoints than Corbyn and Momentum, who are just for the woking class now and couldn't give a shit about the poor, otherwise they would get off their arses and do something to keep the wolf from the door.

Lib Dems? Too little too late. Intransigent as the Labour Party.

I'm not going to put a peg on my nose and vote LibDem though. I'm never going to give them money.

LonelyTiredandLow · 09/08/2019 17:14

placemats then sadly you are going to vote for a party who has no clear stance on Brexit, which obviously isn't your primary concern (fair enough!).

placemats · 09/08/2019 17:24

I'm a staunch remainer.

I don't like the Lib Dems.

Okay?

My brother was the only relative I know who voted Brexit. He would never vote for Farage. He has now changed his mind and is, like myself, a people's vote advocate.

howabout · 09/08/2019 17:28

Depends who your Labour MP is, but if they are one of the 170 or so who voted No Confidence in JC and are fully Remain I struggle to see why a vote for the LibDems makes sense?

If you are in a Conservative marginal and pro-Remain then surely you vote for either LibDem or Labour based purely on who has the best chance of winning?

I am struggling with the LibDem single issue tribalism (from an outsiders' perspective). If of course you want to pay lipservice to Remain and keep the status quo in a Conservative / Labour marginal then LibDem makes perfect sense. You get to keep Remain anti-Corbyn purity and a Tory MP.

NoWordForFluffy · 09/08/2019 17:31

Intransigent as the Labour Party.

I can't see you moving your view much either.

BigChocFrenzy · 09/08/2019 17:39

We learned in 2017 tat a vote for Labour or Tory was taken as a vote for Brexit
"80% of voters supproted Brexit"

In a GE after Brexit, the same will happen
A vote for Tory or Labour would be counted as having approved Brexit and moving on.

Lexiters, e.g. howabout have openly said they can't understand why left or centre Remainers would not vote Labour once Brexit has happened.

That's why Lexiters assume they can ignore Remainers - they think we'll just forgive & vote Labour

A vote for Labour will be a vote approving Brexit
Don't vote Labour unless you actually approve of Brexit

BigChocFrenzy · 09/08/2019 17:46

"Single issue tribalism"

That pretty much defines Lexiters who wilfully piss off the over 70% of 2015 Labour voters and 80% of Labour members,
who ignore the wishes of 48.1% of voters, despite knowing that the Tories & Farage between them have the Leave voters nearly all sown up.

Lexiters are prepared to wilfully sacrifice millions of votes for their Brexit - and trash the economy
All for that single issue

QueenOfThorns · 09/08/2019 17:47

Don't vote Labour unless you actually approve of Brexit

And you’ll be happy when this hands the HoC to the Tories?

RedToothBrush · 09/08/2019 17:51

National Grid has gone down.

Do you remember James Patrick talking about electricity attacks as part of alternative warfare and it would be likely to happen around Brexit time?

He is naturally going

'ahem'

The news says London but twitter is suggesting elsewhere too (unconfirmed)

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RedToothBrush · 09/08/2019 17:55

Sam Coates Sky @samcoatessky
Can MPs stop a no deal brexit now?

Here’s another part of my Sky News interview with Da Costa - now working in No10 - from late June in which she says it will all come down to the Speaker, John Bercow, to change the rules again

Is it even possible for the PM to get a deal?

Yes said Da Costa (at this point speaking in late June) - because she thinks it could be done on October 17/18 at EU council and the relevant legislation could be pushed thru Parliament

Read here

Da Costa now works for no 10.

So interesting to reflect on.

Westminstenders: Promises, promises
Westminstenders: Promises, promises
Westminstenders: Promises, promises
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DGRossetti · 09/08/2019 17:56

Meanwhile, looks like London is in meltdown .... power outages everywhere ...