Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westminstenders: Promises, promises

962 replies

RedToothBrush · 05/08/2019 23:26

Today polling showed that there was a majority in Scotland who support Independence. The 'Boris Bounce' really isn't universal. And this is a firm sign all is not well.

There is talk tonight that Johnson is planning to stay on as PM even if he loses a vote of no confidence in order to force No Deal through and prevent a government of national unity. Instead he would call a 'people v politicians' general election to be held shortly after we'd left the EU.

Johnson's willingness to defy parliament should not be discounted and should be taken seriously. Its highly likely in one way or another. No deal is technically illegal, but its also the default. This does not seem to be fully recognised by remainers. But this is a man who lied and continued to lie. And there is every sign that he would be willing to cause some sort of constitutional crisis. Especially if he really is like Trump. This is what authoritarians do - defy convention and rip up the rule book - because the powers that are suppose to hold them to account are too weak to hold them to account. Something that Johnson has already proved time and again. He has no respect for others.

All the signs are Johnson is in fully into campaigning for a GE already. He's touring the country and ignoring Europe. He's offering money for the NHS - its open to debate whether this is new money - the optics on this are all down to what you want to believe. Those who want Johnson will believe the promise; those who don't won't.

The penny hasn't fully dropped in parliament. There is talk of a vote of no confidence being called by Labour 'at the earliest opportunity' in September. The reality is its too little too late and is unlikely to work to have the desired effect and inside will play right into Johnson's plan. The failure of the Opposition to spot what he was likely to do, has been the story of the last 3 years, where Remainers have been reactionary and unable to anticipate what would happen next. Their lack of imagination and inability to look beyond their own rhetoric has been their undoing and may cost us all in the long run.

Meanwhile in Brussels, the EU unlike our Parliament have recognised the inevitability of no deal and if Johnson wants no deal there is no way to stop it. And that he has no inclination whatsoever to negotiate.

The expectation is still that the EU will have the backstop and the Brexit Bill of £39 billion as the requirement for the opening of trade talks if we no deal.

Which leaves up shit creek.

At the same time the new trade minister Liz Truss is full on libertarian and talking to the US with this in mind.

That would mean a bonfire of rights and standards which will horrify many. That means goodbye to workers rights, food standards and data protection.

The tech giants have the ears of Washington so British ideas of a tax on them are being seen as a block on a US trade deal.

It comes as the UK has joined a US coalition to protect ships in the Gulf - something we were originally given a snub against, and led to Jeremy Hunt saying we would join a European led force. Its not clear what, who or how the US uturn has come about...

Meanwhile our summer holidays are all getting more expensive... and this is just the start of it.

This is real. This isn't a bluff.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
50
placemats · 09/08/2019 13:46

We need remain Tory Parliamentarians to resign. Simple as that.

Then, and only then, can we revoke Article 50 and start again.

All the pages in this shit storm of a novel need to be thrown into the bin.

wheresmymojo · 09/08/2019 13:48

I think this might have been posted before?

Parliament can't control the GE date.

This goes through all of the very technical options.

www.democraticaudit.com/2019/08/05/is-it-too-late-to-stop-a-no-deal-brexit/

RedToothBrush · 09/08/2019 13:48

We need remain Tory Parliamentarians to resign. Simple as that.

Actually its the moderates who to date haven't rebelled.

The remain ones who have aren't enough in numbers to tip the balance enough in practice.

OP posts:
wheresmymojo · 09/08/2019 13:54

Actually reading that article - Parliament could use Standing Order 24 to submit an emergency motion for debate.

I suspect this is what Starmer & Co are discussing.

Bercow made mention of this SO (implied from memory rather than named) in the midst of Brexit debates around March/April to give a hint that it was available for use.

Helpfully the latest version of Erskine May has clarified its usage in a way that helps.

So if they can submit a SO24 that they can get a majority for in Parliament then yes, there is a possibility. I expect the numbers would be pretty close though - depends how many Tory defectors vs. Lexiters.

NoWordForFluffy · 09/08/2019 13:56

Well, Boris wouldn't call a VoNC. He'd table the FTPA vote for a GE. Which is why I ask if an amendment can be tagged on requiring an extension request be made.

And if JC calls for a VoNC, can an amendment be tagged onto this about an extension having to be sought?

In other words, he (Boris) gets his election, but is compelled to ask for an extension before dissolving Parliament.

The amendment could also be Cherry-like with the revoke if extension not agreed.

wheresmymojo · 09/08/2019 13:57

SO 24 rules are here; www.parliament.uk/about/how/business/debates/application-for-emergency-debates/

The Parliamentary Librarians have interestingly researched and published a list of emergency motions since 1979.

Presumably because they can see it being used and were directed to(?) research in advance for any debates about usage?

wheresmymojo · 09/08/2019 14:00

Does he have to table a FTPA vote to call a GE?

I've missed that if so...

wheresmymojo · 09/08/2019 14:02

Sorry, you mean if there is no VoNC then Boris would need to table a vote for a GE?

I see...I guess I was saying he won't have to. He knows the opposition will table a VoNC, they've said so.

NoWordForFluffy · 09/08/2019 14:05

My point is, whoever calls it, can an amendment be added to say he must ask for an extension if there's going to be a GE?

So we can't just crash out because Parliament isn't sitting.

LonelyTiredandLow · 09/08/2019 14:17

Parliament need to raise a request for an EU extension (I think they would if a GE was announced before 31st Oct for just after 31st Oct and a request went in) but Boris won't ask for one if it will scupper his plan to ride on Brexit to another 5 years in power or passing the buck to Remain to deal with No Deal. I personally don't think his plan is to stay on in power but to retreat and come back once someone else has revoked or taken the blame. Does it have to be the PM who asks for the extension? I think it does.

QueenOfThorns · 09/08/2019 14:24

Well, apparently Corbs has written to the Cabinet Secretary to find out whether leaving the EU falls under the purdah rules. If so, wouldn’t Bozo have to request an extension? www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49285670

woman19 · 09/08/2019 14:24

Michael Gove’s big idea: why not keep banks closed day after Brexit
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/89bf3c66-ba1e-11e9-9ed1-57176c9fe03e

Then the weekend. Wink

Then the next Sunday; 10 days in , is when the food shops are closed?

woman19 · 09/08/2019 14:27

@SheRa_Marley
Can't have a financial crisis if the banks are closed taps head

'This isn't just a coup, it's a brexist coup.' Grin

wheresmymojo · 09/08/2019 14:43

Latest from Peston

www.itv.com/news/2019-08-09/the-truth-about-dominic-cummings-writes-robert-peston/

Don't think it tells us anything we don't know.

No Deal isn't a bluff.

Parliament can theoretically stop a no deal scenario but is unlikely to be able to pull it off.

wheresmymojo · 09/08/2019 14:46

Well, apparently Corbs has written to the Cabinet Secretary to find out whether leaving the EU falls under the purdah rules

I can't see how doing nothing can fall under the purdah rules but I guess it does no harm to check...

woman19 · 09/08/2019 15:08

No Deal isn't a bluff
They are in the driving seat; the red and the blue brexist rapturists.

The economy and currency are seriously tanking now.

They must all be very happy, if psychopaths have the ability to be happy.

Hell is empty and all the devils are here. Smile

placemats · 09/08/2019 15:27

Actually its the moderates who to date haven't rebelled.

What?

The remain ones who have aren't enough in numbers to tip the balance enough in practice.

Which is my point. There are many remain Tory parliamentarians, enough to tip the Government into a complete non entity.

placemats · 09/08/2019 15:29

More and more these threads are like those who used to gather around hangings.

Must remember to get my knitting out.

Knit one, purl one is going to be my new place mark.

Worcesterlass · 09/08/2019 15:31

Placemats I would consider my MP a moderate.

He voted Remain and has voted for May’s Deal 3 times.

His constituency voted Leave although not by as big a margin as some.

He will never rebel against his party. His career and Tory party are more important than anything to him.

Any Tory MP who rebels and is in a Leave voting seat can simply say goodbye to their Parliamentary career. They won’t do it even if you and I suffer.

nothingwittyhere · 09/08/2019 15:42

Irthlingborough Waterloo (East Northamptonshire) result:
CON: 53.1% (-2.2)
LAB: 46.9% (+11.6)
Conservative HOLD.
No BNP (-9.4) as previous

I'd say the BNP shifted to CON and everyone else went LAB. Worrying, but a lot of LibDem gains elsewhere.

placemats · 09/08/2019 15:49

Ah okay I see what you mean.

So they are all emasculated in terms of kowtowing to their rapidly ageing constituents and are just as scared of being deselected by the Tory grandees as those Labour members are by momentum?

I have to say, I hope the cat in Downing St rubs their bum across the pillow that Boris Johnson sleeps on.

bellinisurge · 09/08/2019 15:49

I disagree @placemats , although obviously you are entitled to your opinion. Don't know about everyone else but I am surrounded by No Dealers where I live (admittedly they've gone a little quiet of late). I don't tell them what I think about them or No Deal. On here is the only place I can.

placemats · 09/08/2019 15:49

Liberal Democrats are Tories in disguise.

They are quislings.

bellinisurge · 09/08/2019 16:07

If I were to line up the bad guys in all this, the LibDems would be in the line,yes, but not next to the Tories.

DGRossetti · 09/08/2019 16:11

He will never rebel against his party. His career and Tory party are more important than anything to him.

Those days are well past ... it's like someone being really proud of their Pitman typing skills from the 60s ....

Swipe left for the next trending thread