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Brexit

Westminstenders: Promises, promises

962 replies

RedToothBrush · 05/08/2019 23:26

Today polling showed that there was a majority in Scotland who support Independence. The 'Boris Bounce' really isn't universal. And this is a firm sign all is not well.

There is talk tonight that Johnson is planning to stay on as PM even if he loses a vote of no confidence in order to force No Deal through and prevent a government of national unity. Instead he would call a 'people v politicians' general election to be held shortly after we'd left the EU.

Johnson's willingness to defy parliament should not be discounted and should be taken seriously. Its highly likely in one way or another. No deal is technically illegal, but its also the default. This does not seem to be fully recognised by remainers. But this is a man who lied and continued to lie. And there is every sign that he would be willing to cause some sort of constitutional crisis. Especially if he really is like Trump. This is what authoritarians do - defy convention and rip up the rule book - because the powers that are suppose to hold them to account are too weak to hold them to account. Something that Johnson has already proved time and again. He has no respect for others.

All the signs are Johnson is in fully into campaigning for a GE already. He's touring the country and ignoring Europe. He's offering money for the NHS - its open to debate whether this is new money - the optics on this are all down to what you want to believe. Those who want Johnson will believe the promise; those who don't won't.

The penny hasn't fully dropped in parliament. There is talk of a vote of no confidence being called by Labour 'at the earliest opportunity' in September. The reality is its too little too late and is unlikely to work to have the desired effect and inside will play right into Johnson's plan. The failure of the Opposition to spot what he was likely to do, has been the story of the last 3 years, where Remainers have been reactionary and unable to anticipate what would happen next. Their lack of imagination and inability to look beyond their own rhetoric has been their undoing and may cost us all in the long run.

Meanwhile in Brussels, the EU unlike our Parliament have recognised the inevitability of no deal and if Johnson wants no deal there is no way to stop it. And that he has no inclination whatsoever to negotiate.

The expectation is still that the EU will have the backstop and the Brexit Bill of £39 billion as the requirement for the opening of trade talks if we no deal.

Which leaves up shit creek.

At the same time the new trade minister Liz Truss is full on libertarian and talking to the US with this in mind.

That would mean a bonfire of rights and standards which will horrify many. That means goodbye to workers rights, food standards and data protection.

The tech giants have the ears of Washington so British ideas of a tax on them are being seen as a block on a US trade deal.

It comes as the UK has joined a US coalition to protect ships in the Gulf - something we were originally given a snub against, and led to Jeremy Hunt saying we would join a European led force. Its not clear what, who or how the US uturn has come about...

Meanwhile our summer holidays are all getting more expensive... and this is just the start of it.

This is real. This isn't a bluff.

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QueenOfThorns · 07/08/2019 14:03

The US comes in as a saviour with their trade deal with public support

They won’t have mine. I prefer my milk pus-free, thank you very much

(I’m not keen on the idea of chlorine-washed chicken or hormone beef either, but for some reason this thought is too much!)

NoWordForFluffy · 07/08/2019 14:03

Someone somewhere suggested that May as a back bencher, with her Gaukeward possie, tries to return her WA and it's voted through, pronto.

I asked if this was possible the other day, but didn't think it was and I didn't see an answer to it.

RedToothBrush · 07/08/2019 14:05

Someone somewhere suggested that May as a back bencher, with her Gaukeward possie, tries to return her WA and it's voted through, pronto

May is a loyalist.

She'll not rock the boat like that.

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 07/08/2019 14:07

Queen, how long will that last with people who are hungry?

People called the police when KFC had its supply chain problems last year.

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howabout · 07/08/2019 14:08

Louise Revoke vs No Deal was the route people thought Parliament would take. However there is no majority for it. There is a solid block of Labour MPs who are on record, via open letter, confirming they would not vote to Revoke in this scenario. Caroline Flint says there are about the same number again who would vote with them but are not yet on record.

It comes back to the earlier analysis that the Brexit Party is indeed as much of a threat to Labour as the Tories.

DGRossetti · 07/08/2019 14:09

The US comes in as a saviour with their trade deal with public support

That is never going to happen. The UK will remain toxic until the NI border is settled. Loads of warm soapy words. But I am sure people like Raab will be left under no illusions about the UKs place in the pecking order.

Peregrina · 07/08/2019 14:16

Never say never DGR. I think what will happen is that the Government will decide that NI alone can have the backstop. That was the original EU plan, and that should play OK with the Irish lobby in the US Congress.

As for Johnson needing to keep the DUP sweet - since he's almost lost his majority now anyway even with them, and may well lose it altogether with Tory defectors come September, I think he would happily throw them under the bus at that stage. What would it matter if you had a minority government of -1 or -11? A loss by one vote is as much of a loss as one by 11 votes.

DGRossetti · 07/08/2019 14:21

Never say never DGR. I think what will happen is that the Government will decide that NI alone can have the backstop. That was the original EU plan, and that should play OK with the Irish lobby in the US Congress.

Thus accelerating the rise/resurgence of England. Which is how I ould sell the breakup of the union to Brexiteers - which would probably single handedly Grin cause a spike in water consumption overnight, with all the underpants that would need freshening up.

QueenOfThorns · 07/08/2019 14:30

Queen, how long will that last with people who are hungry?

Oh, they’ll welcome it with open arms, I’m sure. They’ll miss the NHS when they all get salmonella from the chicken, though. But this is a red line for me personally, so we will have to go and live somewhere else Sad

(And I know how lucky I am to have that as an option)

billysboy · 07/08/2019 15:05

a lot of fuss about chlorinated chicken when a lot of people happily dive into a swimming pool or hot tub treated with chlorine

Pity we didnt make a bit more fuss about halal slaughter methods that produces meat sold in Subway and the like

Put the border down the Irish sea

bellinisurge · 07/08/2019 15:08

@billysboy , you go and tell your MP to stop dicking about with No Deal and say you will accept Brexit with a border in the sea. Better still write to the PM and tell him. If enough Brexiteers do this we might avoid No Deal.

Socksontheradiator · 07/08/2019 15:17

The reason the chicken is chlorinated is that food hygiene is poor in the US.
There is a much higher rate of food poisoning there. That is what people are concerned about.

howabout · 07/08/2019 15:17

None of the Scottish Tory MPs (Remain or Leave) will accept a border in the Irish Sea. That is 13 votes.

(Never mind chlorine in the swimming pool. It is in our drinking water and it is what our bagged salad is treated with).

billysboy · 07/08/2019 15:19

I cant see the downside of a border in the sea but may be that is because I am thick
Happily write to the MP if I thought it would have any effect

bellinisurge · 07/08/2019 15:26

@billysboy , the downside is that it would piss off the DUP and their fantasy they're the same as their rest of tbe UK apart from when it suits them not to be (civil rights). Fuck 'em.

billysboy · 07/08/2019 15:30

so not much of a downside then !

When in Rome and all that ,should have the same laws UK wide inc abortion rights etc

DGRossetti · 07/08/2019 15:31

.

Westminstenders: Promises, promises
JustAnotherPoster00 · 07/08/2019 15:33

The Times Scotland
@thetimesscot

Labour and the SNP moved towards a pact last night that would seek to oust Boris Johnson as the parties prepared for an autumn election

twitter.com/thetimesscot/status/1158985433277239297

Motheroffourdragons · 07/08/2019 15:36

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

Emilyontmoor · 07/08/2019 15:37

So would we have to go to say Calais and buy our interrail ticket there?

Eurotunnel are outside the rail franchise system and are staying in the scheme so you could get to / go from London at least.

Perhaps the franchise companies like the universities are experiencing / anticipate a contraction in the market of young Europeans wanting to interail around the UK and it is no longer worth the cost of gaining access to that market.

Hazardtired · 07/08/2019 15:37

NS must have the patience of a saint.

howabout · 07/08/2019 15:42

Nope the DUP are not the problem. Ask yourself what is the difference between a Hard Border on Island of Ireland and down the Irish Sea? The answer is None unless you are in favour of a United Ireland and prepared to break the GFA to get it.

The additional problem for Scottish Tory MPs is that it would instantly legitimise a border at Gretna.

Seems like a bit of a sledgehammer to the integrity of the UK to settle a trade dispute with rEU?

The Interrail thing is indeed not Brexit related. More like the joint ticketing issues which plague rail journeys all the time. The train companies are in talks to offer a joint deal on the 2 separate packages which gives the same effect as the current single offer.

DGRossetti · 07/08/2019 15:44

Mind you, my husband reckons that will push Scotland toward independence more quickly.

I think you'll get it quicker if you rebrand it "English independence" ....

Motheroffourdragons · 07/08/2019 15:46

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

Emilyontmoor · 07/08/2019 15:48

I lived in a country where you couldn't rely on food safety. Locally produced food was pretty much out, pollution, use of human manure, hormones, anti biotics, repeated scares eg baby milk tainted with lead etc. Not just food poisoning, Hepatitis infection rates, for example, were through the roof, as were the occurrences of hormonal and oesophageal Cancers. At first we bought Chicken imported from Brazil but then my 7 year old started to sprout breasts, we switched to Australian and they stopped until she was 13. We had to shop around to find safe food, often three different supermarkets, and it was very expensive, as in twice or more the price. All the mid to upmarket restaurants including those specialising in local / regional cuisine advertised that their food was all imported mainly from Australia. Of course those without the money were the ones that suffered . I will never take food safety for granted