Germany's economy in freefall

[urbanlife]

www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2019/07/25/german-economy-free-fall-exhausted-draghi-loses-magic/?li_source=LI&li_medium=li-recommendation-widget

So leaving on WTO terms looks like a very sound choice. Germany props up the entire EU superstate pretty much.

I for one am feeling much more optimistic by the day.

"(Personally I think compromising with radicalised individuals and extremists who stoke the flames of sectarian violence is wrong and dangerous, but I respect Bellini's moderate point of view)."
You are not wrong @Mistigri . Perhaps it's because I live in a big Leave area and would rather stay under the radar.

Two mentions of thick Leavers so far on this thread One from EmeraldIlse and one from Shinesweetfreedom. Both Leavers.

"Bellini will bitch whine and moan about how bad Brexit is,how thick leavers are etc etc."
Except I don't. Although some of the prize ones on here are obviously trying to get people to say that they are "thick as mince" as the PM's new best friend would say.

@BlueJag "I for one I'm very excited to leave the EU I think if they want to deal we will and we can have a great trading relationship."

There's a word in the middle of that you might want to examine.

If.

Currently there isn't a majority in Scotland for leaving the UK despite Scotland clearly having voted not to leave the EU.
It is thoroughly depressing to realize how little value is placed on this union by those in favor of Brexit.
It is even more depressing that the nationalists in my own country were right at the time of the last independence referendum there is no meaningful partnership in the UK.

@EmeraldIsle2016

Except at GE won’t change anything as far as the DUP are concerned. They will win the same amount of seats. There are no assurance that the Tories will win enough to form a government on their own.

The issue would then be starting renegotiate again under Corbyn (shudder).

@BelleSausage - Except at GE won’t change anything as far as the DUP are concerned. They will win the same amount of seats.

Not necessarily. They lost seats in the European elections as people are pissed off with their stance. That said, I don't think they'd lose much.

There are options other than Boris and Corbyn.

There are options other than Boris and Corbyn.

As party Leaders - no. As voting for other parties - yes.

I meant as voting options.

There are options other than Boris and Corbyn.
Not while they are the leaders of the two largest parties and the UK retains FPTP

We haven’t got a majority government now, we didn’t have one 2010-2015. There’s nothing to stop smaller parties forming a coalition. And because the Tories and Labour are traditionally the largest parties doesn’t mean it has to stay that way. Look at the rise of the Brexit Party.

There are options other than Boris and Corbyn

Not while they are the leaders of the two largest parties and the UK retains FPTP

I think we could be on the verge of a fundamental shift in UK politics, Labour came about and the Liberals collapsed under FPTP, history can repeat itself!

Johnson is a very polarising figure, just as Corbyn is, albeit for different reasons.

There is room for a centre ground party and the LibDems might just be the one?

Unfortunately, i do think we will be out of the EU by the time we get the chance, probably with the WA and NI only backstop.

I can personally only see a move away from the FPTP system when both Labour and Tory have a couple of more elections where neither gains a majority. At the moment, they are both deluding themselves, this time we will get the big majority. It will only be when they realise that this isn't going to happen that they will want a proper PR system where as the biggest party they call the shots in forming a coalition.

Look at you, fighting over something that very few know what's going on behind the scenes like a theatre production trusting the narrative of the media as if it's the be all and end all.

Here is the reality, you need to look after your own interests and forget trying to argue on the internet! Stop looking at others point of view as if it's the greatest evil ever! Start being at peace and thinking rationally because even if worse comes to worse, is running around screaming about the opposite point of view going to really help you?

The economic system of the West is so entwined that I don't believe anything will happen to weaken that to the point of absolute collapse. Anyone who thinks Britain collapses without any form of negative impact not just to the EU but globally is very naïve. Britain collapses, the global economy falls with her.

Please stop worrying, think rationally and sort your own interests out rather than being on here ranting and raving about something that is way way beyond your control!

@Cacacoisfarraige

human rights and workers rights are being eroded and have been slowly for the past 20 years!!!

We are entering into a period of intense change.

The WA is completely unworkable because it a not Brexit under any circumstances, only tethering the country indefinitely as a satellite to the EU.

The Malthouse agreement could have worked, at the time, and was the closest we came as a country to compromise. This really should have been given more air time, many remainers and Brexiteers agreed with the solution.

Canada plus plus agreement would also have worked, but remainers held out for a complete reversal. Had the remainers in parliament understood the need for compromise, to respect their own constituents, and the vote then we would not be staring down the barrel of no deal. The EU agreed to the Canada plus plus two years ago!

You could argue it is the likes of Grieve that will be partially responsible for no deal, they overstepped the mark and tried to overthrow democracy, that was always going to end badly.

I'm a prepper @VikVal - I'm already sorted, thanks.

Hope you’re being paid overtime for this @urbanlife.

@urbanlife - NI only backstop. EU want it. What's the problem?

Alsohuman

Hope you’re being paid overtime for this @urbanlife**

Why did you say this?

The usual pack of remainers have been on this thread all day long.
Are they being paid?

bellini do you have any kind of life? You’ve literally been on here since this morning.

The UK will never allow NI to be splintered off, and there is no reason to as there are other solutions.

@urbanlife - The Malthouse agreement could have worked

The malthouse agreement proposed using undefined technology to avoid border checks. There is no such technology in existence today. The EU are happy to see a solution that uses technology. The WA provides for the backstop to come into play if that does not work.

Had the remainers in parliament understood the need for compromise, to respect their own constituents, and the vote then we would not be staring down the barrel of no deal.

Had the no deal proponents in parliament understood the need for compromise, to respect their own constituents, and the vote then we would not be staring down the barrel of no deal*. They would have accepted the WA with either a NI only backstop or, if they really want to pander to the DUP, a UK wide backstop.