Germany's economy in freefall

[urbanlife]

www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2019/07/25/german-economy-free-fall-exhausted-draghi-loses-magic/?li_source=LI&li_medium=li-recommendation-widget

So leaving on WTO terms looks like a very sound choice. Germany props up the entire EU superstate pretty much.

I for one am feeling much more optimistic by the day.

"Approximately 3,500 lives lost during the troubles in Ireland since late 1960s to GFA in 1998. That is an average of 10 per month. A lot of people because neighbours couldn’t get on with each other." I assume you did not live through the terror living in a country in civil war, where intimidation, torture, murder and bombings were a constant threat or in the British cities that were bombed. A journalist was shot just weeks ago if you don’t think a return to those levels of violence isn’t a real possibility

"ROI has a population of about 3 million. How does their wants make a vote cast by over 17 million invalid?"
It's a different fucking country.

A journalist was shot just weeks ago if you don’t think a return to those levels of violence isn’t a real possibility

How does the threat of violence overrule a vote? Saying that people can’t vote because there maybe a threat of violence is the same as giving into terrorists.

You leavers are weird - you drone on endlessly and tediously about democracy and sovereignty then act as if Ireland is not a sovereign country entitled to make decisions in its own interests.

Ah, the giving into terrorism bullshit argument. Closely followed by "fear reprisals if we don't leave on 31 October ".
GFA fixed all that. So why fuck it up. How old are you?

@EmeraldIsle2016 - ROI has a population of about 3 million. How does their wants make a vote cast by over 17 million invalid?

You do realise Ireland is an independent country, don't you? Ireland is not invalidating the votes of anyone. Ireland simply expects the UK to comply with an international treaty that they signed. There is nothing, other than intransigence, preventing the UK from leaving while still adhering to the GFA.

Oh, and maybe check a more up to date reference for population figures.

Saying that people can’t vote because there maybe a threat of violence is the same as giving into terrorists

That's not what people are saying. The GFA is a legally binding treaty and for some reason our ludicrously stupid Tory politicians fail to grasp that. Even the US administration has worked it out!

The referendum should never have happened, given the GFA was predicated on both Ireland and the UK being in the EU. But as it did there has to be a solution. And the Tories will have to suck it up.

A journalist was shot just weeks ago if you don’t think a return to those levels of violence isn’t a real possibility

And lets not forget an MP was murdered on British soil too as a direct result of the Brexit campaign.

Brexit already has blood on its hands without causing strife in NI.

It's a different xxxxxx country

Exactly. It’s like Libya saying to Americans that their decision to vote for Trump should be ignored as Libyans don’t like Trump and what he stands for.

@EmeraldIsle2016

You obviously have no clue what you are talking about.

You should know full well that the reason a breakdown in the GFA would be so terrible is that it would plunge England, Ireland and Northern Ireland into violent struggle again. People died in Birmingham, Manchester and in London as well as in Dublin, Belfast and Londonderry.

The question you should be asking is: Is leaving the EU worth reversing decades of work to integrate Catholic and Protestant communities in Northern Ireland?

Is leaving the EU worth the break up of the United Kingdom?

Is leaving the EU more important than peace in our time?

Ireland is not just a country of 3 million people. It is also a close trading partner and ally of the US. The Irish community in America were the ones who helped broker successful intervention in Northern Ireland. The US will not help to bail us out if we break an international treaty that they specifically set out to broker.

No it is not giving in to violence it is respecting a peace agreement reached with the involvement of the EU, America, Ireland and the U.K. which was an amazing accomplishment which bought all sides together to achieve peace. They did not give in to violence they asserted peace over it.

And your Libya comparison is embarrassing. I am blushing for you at your total ignorance of the history of your own country and your wilful misunderstanding of the importance of peace in Northern Ireland and how the U.K. came to cause the troubles and our important role on ensuring peace.

You obviously have no fucking idea what it cost to achieve that peace.

@EmeraldIsle2016 - Exactly. It’s like Libya saying to Americans that their decision to vote for Trump should be ignored as Libyans don’t like Trump and what he stands for.

That would only be an appropriate analogy if Libya and the USA had both signed a treaty that said neither could have an orange bigot as president. They didn't, so it's not analogous.

The peace/violence discussion is actually irrelevant. The relevant point is that both Ireland and the UK signed an international treaty. Ireland have every right to expect the UK to comply with that treaty.

Ireland isn't stopping us from leaving. It is just expecting us to do so in a way that doesn't break an international agreement we have with them. An NI only backstop would make this work. Ireland has no objection to this.
Seriously, how old are you?

Oh, and if we want to get really silly, why not add the 4.9 million Irish to the 16.1 million who voted remain. How come the 17.4 million who voted leave get to trump the 21 million who don't want it?

breakdown in the GFA would be so terrible is that it would plunge England, Ireland and Northern Ireland into violent struggle again

The entire world is battling wars, but it doesn’t prevent them from voting.

People died in Birmingham, Manchester and in London as well as in Dublin, Belfast and Londonderry

UK road deaths are about 1,800 per year. Should cars be banned on that basis?

So say votes have to be ignored if there is a threat of violence is not democracy. It’s called dictatorship.

How come the 17.4 million who voted leave get to trump the 21 million who don't want it?

Easy answer. Those who are not eligible to vote or choose not to vote don’t count.

Your comment about respecting treaties was more to the point.

I thought I'd heard all the asinine arguments from leavers but today takes the biscuit. Road deaths compared to civil war ffs.

@EmeraldIsle2016 no one is saying votes should be ignored.
NI voted to sign the GFA, it was signed, this needs to be honored.
It is also possible to leave the EU while honoring the GFA.
It isn't possible to have a hard Brexit with no type of back stop but that wasn't the EU ref question.
We can leave the EU in a number of ways without breaking the international treaty we have signed.
It isn't that hard to understand really.

orange bigot as president

Good one that. Already Johnson is being likened to Trump

Yes mostly by Trump himself!

@EmeraldIsle2016 - Easy answer. Those who are not eligible to vote or choose not to vote don’t count.

As I said, it was a silly comment that matched the ridiculousness of your question as to why the opinion of 3 (sic) million Irish should invalidate 17 million voters