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Brexit

Westminstenders: On An Election Footing

966 replies

RedToothBrush · 25/07/2019 16:22

Boris Johnson has set out his strategy.

He is challenging remain Tories to put their money where their mouth is, or to shut up.

His majority, soon to be just 1, is fragile but he intends to tough it out.

His Cabinet, is to all intents and purposes an ERG take over of the Tory Party, not unlike the Momentum take over of the Labour Party. And Johnson is looking to purge the party of its liberal wing, whilst pretending that he is liberal to make it acceptable to long term loyal Tories who might still waiver and merely vote for the rosette or like the veneer of respectability.

It has been made clear to Tory MPs that they will have to sign up to a No Deal Strategy should a snap election be called - or face the prospect of deselection. Disloyality will not be tolerated as Hunt's Cabinet backers all found out when they were sacked rather than be allowed to resign as Grayling was.

Instead Johnson reaped his revenge bringing back quitters and disgraced MPs as a deliberate 'fuck you' to moderates and remainers.

His message is clear and made all the clearer by the appointment of Dominic Cummings.

Today the Treasurery opened the piggie bank and told all departments to prepare for no deal. That is what is going to happen.

Parliament can not stop no deal. Johnson will drive it through regardless, even if its technically illegal. The default of no deal makes it an impossible juggernaught to stop without triggering a GE before the 31st October.

Technically speaking there are just 3 parliamentary days left this can be done.

And a GE is no guarentee of stopping no deal anyway. Cummings coming on board spells it out. Its a campaign strategy to reinvigourate the Leave Campaign and make all the promises that were made before. Of course there is no way of implimenting any of these before 31st October, so they just sound nice and people will believe them because they want to believe them. They want to trust and have hope for the future.

Yet with no trade deals and third party status, and crippling gridlock at ports and extra red tape for exporters and importers to deal with, it is inevitable that the economy will take a big hit. And Johnson's promises are expensive. His £39 billion he wants to withhold, is peanuts in the scheme of things and given what he is proposing.

The plan might sound nice, but it doesn't actually add up.

If we want a deal we will STILL have to sign up to conditions that Brussels sets out EVEN IF we no deal.

Meanwhile the US is ready and waiting to fleece us, because we aren't prepared to admit this and are too proud to see that this is a better option than have corporate American feast on the bones of the British economy.

Human Rights and Workers Rights are very much in the cross hairs with this. Health and Safety standards that have been set by London and then imposed on the EU will be burnt.

All the while the EU will be blamed for our own folly.

The worst thing is, people will actually buy it too.

Things are going to get a hell of a lot worse in this country, not because we lack optimism and hope, but because our egos are too big and we have been too idealist rather than recognising very real obstacles and finding ways to overcome than rather than just trying to ignore them. We will find out all those Paragraph Cs in good time the hard way because of the lack of attention to detail.

PFI and outsourcing will look like minor hiccups when the shit hits the fan.

I do hope that the puritians of the Labour Party and the Liberal Democrats and the Remain Referendum Campaign are happy. This is also their mess. They have spent 3 years naval gazing and still don't understand nor know how to respond. This is where a General Election becomes a very real danger because they are clueless as to how to combat a reunited Leave campaign.

Be careful what you wish for going forward.

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DGRossetti · 27/07/2019 16:34

I would counsel against being too sure women - or indeed any section of society - could not be easily disenfranchised if an administration set it's mind to it.

The ground has already been laid - a public quite happy to believe in "austerity" (i.e. fuck the poor) as a means to wealth.

A public queuing up to renounce hard won rights, as long as they believe it's to punish "criminals" (because most of the public forget a criminal is only what the government of the day defines it as.)

Any amount of infringements to protect against "terrorists" (same note as previously, with the added notice that Boris wants anti-hunt protestors called terrorists too)

And while you're doing that, you quietly break the machine of democracy so that eventually your vote is meaningless anyway - and we're pretty much 80% of the way with that one.

Have I missed anything ?

The only real question I have, is given Britains location and status, who are we preparing to go to war against ? Or are we going to see an ally attacked and get dragged in ?

Must see what odds are being offered.

placemats · 27/07/2019 16:40

The Scottish border already has a wall in place, which is why the Roman's built it. It's an easy border to maintain.

For the benefit of doubt. There wasn't a border in Ireland when the Romans invaded Britain.

DGRossetti · 27/07/2019 16:43

The Scottish border already has a wall in place, which is why the Roman's built it. It's an easy border to maintain.

Er, doesn't that now encompass parts of England ?

And what of Berwick ?

Alsohuman · 27/07/2019 16:44

Hadrian’s wall - or what remains of it - is 50 miles south of the Scottish border in the east.

DadDadDad · 27/07/2019 16:48

Indeed - I think the people of Newcastle (and the much of Northumberland) would be a bit shocked to be told everything north of Hadrian's wall is in Scotland.

placemats · 27/07/2019 16:51

Berwick has a strong association with Scotland and there are many who would want to join in with Scottish Independence.

Berwick Rangers play in the Scottish league.

placemats · 27/07/2019 16:54

I didn't say that Hadrian's Wall was in Scotland.

But if a push came to a shove, I'm absolutely sure that Johnson & Co would be happy to draw a line somewhere.

Alsohuman · 27/07/2019 16:56

@placemats, you said Hadrians Wall Marks the border. It doesn’t.

NoCryingInEngineering · 27/07/2019 16:57

Berwick is 50+ miles north of Newcastle. It is on the Scottish border, on the bit of it where the Tweed is (mostly) the border. Hadrians Wall finishes at Wallsend in Tyneside.

The wall as the border would need just a few changes making

placemats · 27/07/2019 16:57

Hadrian's Wall was built in ROMAN times.

It's an impressive wall.

Alsohuman · 27/07/2019 16:59

It still doesn’t mark the border with Scotland.

Peregrina · 27/07/2019 17:04

Some relatives in the N East have told me that they would be glad for the border to come as far south as Newcastle. They are neglected by Westminster.

placemats · 27/07/2019 17:06

Ok.

So it's interesting that loads pile on regarding the border marking of Scotland and England. It's a simple border; short and well defined. It has had its fair share of battles, many bloody. Despite this the border almost remains the same as when Hadrian marked it out.

But when it comes to Ireland? Total ignorance.

DGRossetti · 27/07/2019 17:07

Hadrian's Wall was built in ROMAN times

By immigrants ....

SleightOfMind · 27/07/2019 17:10

Anand Menon and Peter Foster have come to very similar conclusions.

DGRossetti · 27/07/2019 17:12

So it's interesting that loads pile on regarding the border marking of Scotland and England. It's a simple border; short and well defined. It has had its fair share of battles, many bloody. Despite this the border almost remains the same as when Hadrian marked it out.

No disrespect, but there's not much history in that. Look up how many times Berwick swapped between England and Scotland for a start.

The border may be "well defined" now, but mainly because it's an internal border, not an international one.

I refer people to the Tez O'Clock show for a perspective on what happens when countries suddenly find themselves either side of an imposed border - as India and Pakistan have done.

In fact I would hope the SNP have a millimetre-accurate idea of where they want any future border with England to run. Since it will inevitably separate families and communities.

pollyannaperspective · 27/07/2019 17:12

I am not ignorant of the border between NI and Ireland. What is your point Placemats? That border on the island arises out of the early 20th century conflict on the island of Ireland and the 'political' settlement.

SleightOfMind · 27/07/2019 17:14

Oops sorry!
Wrong thread Blush

prettybird · 27/07/2019 17:17

It's not ignorance: I'm literally not long back from visiting a friend of dh's (who specifically moved to England because he opposes the idea of Scottish independence Wink actually, it was to get far away from his toxic family but he was also a No voter Wink) who lives close to Hadrian's Wall, close to Corbridge. I must have imagined all the miles of England that we drove through Hmm

Hadrian's Wall is impressive though - as is the dead straight Roman road that runs alongside it (which made me car sick which I normally never suffer from as the dips and troughs did my head and stomach in Envy)

We are all (at least on these threads, which are a bit more informed than most Wink) fully aware that the NI/Ireland border is an artificial construct Confused

howabout · 27/07/2019 17:20

Queen ignoring all the hyperbole - fairly easy since I am watching the shinty on Alba reminiscing about the shinty / hurling International - both Ireland and UK have confirmed there will be no physical border.

Yep the Scots could teach everyone a thing or two about getting someone else to build and pay for a wall Grin

prettybird · 27/07/2019 17:21

The SNP have no plans to change the internationally recognised land border between England and Scotland. That was in Scotland's Future Smile It was even prepared to accept the recently manipulated sea border, which conveniently put some of the oil and gas wells into "English" territorial waters Shock

placemats · 27/07/2019 17:22

Invaders, not immigrants, who employed and handsomely paid the locals, slavery didn't work too well in England and by then most were considered Roman citizens and the locals were very happy to adopt the new Roman ways. There was a comprehensive infrastructure put in place to ensure local, national and international prosperity, and this carries on to this day. The Romans understood the importance of a local infrastructure, though many 'generals' who were sent there didn't like the area because they didn't fit in, unlike in the south of England and the Med.

But those damn Picts had to be contained. Hence the wall. Antonius built a wall running roughly from Glasgow to Edinburgh.

Hence the Borders.

NoCryingInEngineering · 27/07/2019 17:22

almost remains the same as when Hadrian marked it out

For some kind of value of same. As in they are still on the same land mass. And start at roughly the same point.

But Solway-Tyne is a very different line to Solway-Tweed

NoWordForFluffy · 27/07/2019 17:23

What have the Romans ever done for us? 🤔

BigChocFrenzy · 27/07/2019 17:36

"I doubt many women are traipsing their DC about on the bus unless they have no access to a car."

The poorest families can't afford to own & run a car.

Yet another example of the "poverty price": poor people paying more and requiring more time & effort to obtain essentials, than the rest of us