Ethical Spending

[KennDodd]

What Brexit supporting businesses can I boycott? And what anti Brexit ones can I support? I already know about Next, Wetherspoons and Dyson.

[UKvsTheWorld]

Brexit is also putting people's jobs in jeopardy

Circular argument. Remain supporters who boycott companies who support leave threaten the jobs of every employee. Including those that voted remain.

Do you really think that 100% of employees of companies who support leave (eg Wetherspoons, Aston Martin) are all leave supporters?

[grumiosmum]

Mamamia456 my first comment was lighthearted.

My second was deadly serious.

[TheElementsSong]

Do you really think that 100% of employees of companies who support leave (eg Wetherspoons, Aston Martin) are all leave supporters?

The logical conclusion of this is that nobody can ever boycott any company or product ever for any reason, e.g. Nestle, or Amazon, or palm oil, or non-fair-trade.

Furthermore, say I wish to purchase a vacuum cleaner. By making a choice to spend my money on Z brand vacuum cleaner for whatever reason, I have in effect boycotted (i.e. not spent my money on) Y brand vacuum cleaner.

So long as I buy my damned vacuum cleaner, somebody is going to earn the money from my purchase. Unless, apparently, every consumer is morally obliged to purchase unlimited quantities of everything, from everywhere? Do you have a cupboard in your house filled with every make of vacuum cleaner on the market? If not, "Won't somebody think of the employees of A-Y brands? Whyyyyyy do you want them to lose their jobs?"

[UKvsTheWorld]

Furthermore, say I wish to purchase a vacuum cleaner. By making a choice to spend my money on Z brand vacuum cleaner for whatever reason, I have in effect boycotted (i.e. not spent my money on) Y brand vacuum cleaner

Simple economic example of substitutes. If there are 26 different brands of any product then they are all substitutes for each other. Most people have limited funds and are unable to buy every brand available. So buying from one brand only is an economic constraint as opposed to an intentional boycott of alternatives.

This principle has been around since the beginning of time. Long before Brexit was ever heard of. So what do posters who say they will boycott Leave supporting companies or people think they will gain?

[twofingerstoEverything]

So what do posters who say they will boycott Leave supporting companies or people think they will gain?
The satisfaction of knowing their money isn't lining the pockets of people who support shafting the country/economy.

Actually, I think this question is a bit rich coming from a Leaver, given that Leavers on these threads are never able to answer the biggest question of all: what they think we will gain by leaving the EU. Maybe UKvs will answer it without resorting to the usual flannel about EU armies, sovereignty, uncontrolled immigration etc. Maybe UKvs can tell us the concrete benefits that will make us all better off - either financially or otherwise - by leaving, because 3 years after the vote, half the country remains unconvined by the 'arguments'.

[KennDodd]

UKvsTheWorld very suitable user name for a Leaver.

I will gain the satisfaction of knowing I'm not adding money to Tim Martin's bank account, or James Dyson's. Dyson who believes in Brexit so much he's since fucked off to Singapore for economic reasons.

[TheElementsSong]

So buying from one brand only is an economic constraint as opposed to an intentional boycott of alternatives.

So are you genuinely saying that consumers should make said brand choices in a vacuum (at random), and that if funds were not an issue, you would in principle endorse the purchase of unlimited products from every brand in order to offer unbiased support to all?

So what do posters who say they will boycott Leave supporting companies or people think they will gain?

So are you, or are you not, against the principle of boycotting products or companies? Non-fair-trade? Palm oil? Tax evaders? Polluters? Apartheid? Non-ethical banking? After all, they would presumably all employ people who may not support the company's actions but simply need a job.

[UKvsTheWorld]

Dyson is a family owned business. Share holders are in the UK. So they pay Tax on the dividends they receive. The move to Malaysia makes Dyson more profitable so dividends are higher. Hence Tax collected by HMRC is greater than before the move.

[UKvsTheWorld]

half the country remains unconvined by the 'arguments

The other half (actually more than half) are convinced by the benefits of leave, but as other posters on other threads have said the decision to vote leave may not have been based on financial considerations.

How people vote is their own choice and does not have to explained or justified to anyone except themselves.

[twofingerstoEverything]

The other half (actually more than half) are convinced by the benefits of leave
Source?

How people vote is their own choice and does not have to explained or justified to anyone except themselves.
Thought so Another Leaver unable to articulate the benefits of Brexit. How surprising.

[Zagorka2000]

I would not have bet on a Leave result of the referendum, but that is how it worked out.

When the next GE comes around voters can choose to vote for any of the parties who support remain or rejoining the EU as if Johnson does what he says UK will leave EU in October this year.

There have been many threads started by remain supporters to try and extract from leave supporters as to why they voted leave, but they do not serve any purpose. If anything they add to the division that UK is in.

[jasjas1973]

Ah! once again its all the nasty remainers fault.....

Democracy relies on peaceful opposition or do you suggest that after a GE the losing sides disband for the next 5 years?

Once we leave the EU, there is no option to rejoin (certaily not in the foreseeable future) this is why remainers are fighting Brexit all the way, its up to brexitiers to put forward the plans and ideals that they believe in and convince us of the benefits... so far they have failed to do so.

[prettybird]

UKvsTheWorld just continues the already debunked and facile arguments of Lifecontinues

There are certain posters that I know to ignore as they have nothing constructive or realistic to the discussion.

And yes, I will continue to boycott Brexit supporting businesses - in the same way that I boycotted South African goods and supported the Sports Boycott. My disposable income can go to non-Brexit supporting businesses (although having said that, not buying a Dyson, avoiding Spoons and not buying clothes in Next is hardly a hardship ).

[Zagorka2000]

its up to brexitiers to put forward the plans and ideals that they believe in and convince us of the benefits... so far they have failed to do so

It is the remain supporters task to convince government as they are the ones who will implement UK departure from the EU, not the leave supporters.

Now that UK has a leave supporting PM leave is more likely to happen. However, leaving without a deal is not the best option I think.

[Cobblersandhogwash]

That's funny. Boris will shift whichever he feels will personally benefit him best. 😂

Leaving the EU will shit on Britain. There are no benefits. None.

[prettybird]

"It is the remain supporters task to convince government as they are the ones who will implement UK departure from the EU, not the leave supporters."

[twofingerstoEverything]

There have been many threads started by remain supporters to try and extract from leave supporters as to why they voted leave, but they do not serve any purpose. If anything they add to the division that UK is in.

If remain supporters are being sold up the Swannee, they are entitled to ask why. Leavers not providing persuasive arguments adds to the division that the UK is experiencing.

[twofingerstoEverything]

Now that UK has a leave supporting PM leave is more likely to happen. However, leaving without a deal is not the best option I think.

Well, assuming you're in the UK, you're just going to have to suck that up with the rest of us, aren't you?

[ListeningQuietly]

I choose to spend money with businesses who I believe behave ethically
based on the available evidence.
My ethical factors are

• climate change
• gross tax avoidance
• invasion of other territories
• Brexit

[Zagorka2000]

Arguments for and against EU membership were presented by the two campaign parties. People listened and voted accordingly.

Nothing prevents people from voting differently in a general election. MPs voted against another referendum if I remember.

[BiBabbles]

Making conscious choices on spending where we want is great, but I'm not sure this will get the momentum or purpose to become a successful boycott. Boycotting isn't, in effect or otherwise, just not spending money. It's intentionally withdrawing financial and/or social support in protest until a goal is reached. Pretty much every successful boycott involved being collectively very clear on the complaints and goals and either creating or promoting alternatives.

I think this is why a lot of more recent 'boycotts' have not really done anything. I mean, the Nestle one has been around for well over a decade now and pretty much nothing has come from it because, like so many others, the complaints tend to remain within the same echo chamber bubble and very little is done to make or encourage alternatives or made it clear what would make those who are boycotting buy again. Changing a CEO or whoever's opinion isn't really as strong focal point as ending apartheid or fighting against racist hiring practices like with the Bristol Bus Boycott.

[InOutofmymind]

Nothing prevents people from voting differently in a general election. MPs voted against another referendum if I remember

What is point are you trying to make?

[Zagorka2000]

Point is that people can vote for the parties who are advocating remain when the next general election. Some of the threads seem to be saying that referendum result has to be overturned if those who support leave don’t answer remain supporters questions.

[jasjas1973]

Zagorka

Any GE is almost certain to be after Brexit, it's then too late, i already explained that in an early post.

Of course should BJ fail and call a GE during any extension period, then you are correct.

[Oranginna]

Queen's Dyson fan clearly on show as she shakes Johnson's hand.