Ethical Spending

[KennDodd]

What Brexit supporting businesses can I boycott? And what anti Brexit ones can I support? I already know about Next, Wetherspoons and Dyson.

Or is it a remain fan?

Johnson could call a GE before October in order to take advantage of Labours floundering and use Brexit Party as insurance for a coalition to form a majority. 406 constituencies voted leave compared to 242 who voted remain. Not seen any evidence that there is sufficient change of mind to swing the majority of constituencies in favour of remain.

Alternatively Johnson could stick to his promised plan of UK leaves EU in October deal or no deal. Next GE would be 20 months away in June 2021. So leave would be well in progress before a GE took place.

If outcome of a GE in 2021 was that remain supporting parties formed a coalition to make a majority then UK could apply to rejoin the EU. However, I can’t see Labour, LibDems, Greens, Change UK and Plaid Cymru making a 5 party coalition. Even if they did they would lumber themselves with the task of going cap in hand to EU to rejoin.

No certainty that EU would accept UK application. Just think of the amount of money the 27 member states would have spent adjusting to UK absence only for UK to change their minds less than 2 years later. If I was EU I would want all the money wasted paying back by UK. Likewise EU would be fools to allow UK to rejoin on the same terms as before.

Not a lot of time left, but now that no deal is back on the table it might result in some movement in the existing WA. Find a solution to the Irish border and WA would go through.

No he cannot.
Not without a 2/3 majority of the house (that pesky FTPA again)
which he does not have.

And the EU have stated that the WA is complete
only the PD can be amended now

Ummmm, the next scheduled General Election is in June 2022 - nearly 35 months away

Some of the threads seem to be saying that referendum result has to be overturned if those who support leave don’t answer remain supporters questions.
That's quite a spin going on there! And why are you banging on about constituencies? Unlike a GE, a referendum result is not counted by constituency but by individual votes. Again, nice 'spin' there.

And the EU have stated that the WA is complete

But UK MPs rejected the WA three times.

only the PD can be amended now

PD does not enter the equation without a WA. Johnson has stated that UK will leave EU in October deal or nor deal. If it is no deal than WA is binned and UK must trade under WTO. Not the best option, but if a WA can't be agreed what option is left?

Looking at the new cabinet Johnson has formed even those MPs who voted remain in 2016 agree that the referendum result must be honoured. T May said same on her last day as PM. Many remain MPs who have appeared on QT have also stated that referendum results must be implemented in order.

Will UK suffer in the short term under a no deal? Yes very likely, but democracy has been preserved.

If in the future the voters think that leaving the EU was a bad idea they can vote in future GE for those parties that have another referendum in their manifesto. However, I remember that MPs voted against another referendum? So a GE is the only mechanism to introduce another referendum.

If another referendum took place and the vote was to rejoin then so be it. UK must apply to rejoin EU.

Yes referendums are based on %, but GE are based on seats. This is what favours leave. Whilst the % that voted leave in 2016 was 52%, the number of constituencies was 406 leave compared to 242 remain. That is a 62.5% leave and 37.5% remain. Likewise it is estimated that 60% of labour constituencies voted leave.

Best outcome is UK and EU to find a solution to the Irish Border as that was the sticking point in the WA.

Best outcome is UK and EU to find a solution to the Irish Border as that was the sticking point in the WA.

The solution was in the WA.

It's not complicated.

Will UK suffer in the short term under a no deal? Yes very likely, but democracy has been preserved

Do you know what "the UK will suffer" means? Nissan workers are about to find out.

Had we left shortly after June '16, i'd have agreed but after over 3 years, people should be given another opportunity to express their opinions, either through a GE or another vote.

Funny how the wee detail of when the next election is scheduled is ignored

For those who don't appear to know , it is in June 2022 which is just 34.5 months away.

Of course, if BJ loses a no-confidence vote, or he can get a 2/3 majority to overturn the FTPA, then it could be sooner. Pesky democracy and the rule of the law

Had we left shortly after June '16, i'd have agreed but after over 3 years, people should be given another opportunity to express their opinions, either through a GE or another vote

Whether or not Article 50 could be triggered without parliamentary approval was challenged by Gina Miller in July 2016. Supreme Court made their decision 24 January 2017 that parliament had to vote, 7 months after the referendum. Article 50 was invoked 29 March 2017, 2 months after the Supreme Court ruling.

The two years negotiation period in Article 50 is intended to avoid an abrupt overnight departure by a member that has chosen to leave.

So the soonest UK could have left the EU was 29 March 2019, almost 3 years after the referendum in June 2016.

Now that Johnson is PM I can't see another referendum being held. However, the next GE is June 2022 at latest. That's when voters will get the chance to choose again.

The solution was in the WA

MPs thought not and rejected it 3 times. After reading Cox's legal interpretation of the WA I can see why it was rejected.

Do you know what "the UK will suffer" means? Nissan workers are about to find out

Nissan in Sunderland employs about 7,000 people and is the largest single employer in the region. Yet 61% of Sunderland voted to leave EU?

However, the next GE is June 2022 at latest
No
That is the date of the next election under the FTPA

The Prime Minister no longer picks the date of the GE

I like you @ListeningQuietly

If that looks weird I was referring to your post yesterday at 12.18

Grumio
Happily taken in the spirit intended.
Clear ethics are useful things

I think nissan workers are under threat because diesel engines are no longer as popular. That's why jobs world wide are going.

There are lots of reasons to boycott companies, but I'm not sure that the owner exercising their democratic right to a different opinion to the one you have, is a particularly good one.
Boycotts don't work unless they are almost universally supported by the public, which this isn't. Of course it's your prerogative to not buy a Dyson or drink in 'spoons, but plenty of other people will so I doubt the owners will notice or care.

There are lots of reasons to boycott companies, but I'm not sure that the owner exercising their democratic right to a different opinion to the one you have, is a particularly good one.

If business owners have their right to democratic opinions then so do customers. And my democratic and lawful opinion is that I prefer my cash to benefit businesses whose values I share.

You do, but if you boycott everyone whose dealings you consider to be a bit iffy, it doesn't leave much.

You do, but if you boycott everyone whose dealings you consider to be a bit iffy, it doesn't leave much.
It leaves more than enough for what a non consumerist person needs

Spend less
Spend better

That is the date of the next election under the FTPA

Unless two thirds of the Commons votes for a motion to have one sooner, or a vote of no confidence is passed and no alternative government is confirmed within a fortnight.

Only 50% of GEs since the FTPA was passed have been on the planned date (though with a tiny sample of, er, two. )

The scheduled date of the next election under the FTPA is actually 5 May 2022 (first Thursday in May in the fifth year after the last election.

will so I doubt the owners will notice or care.

Golly gosh. You mean the wailing and gnashing of teeth about “whyyyyyy don’t you care about job losses and companies collapsing due to your cruel refusal to buy Brand Z!” was incorrect?

will so I doubt the owners will notice or care
I agree. Still don't want to give them my money though.

In other news. My family's lovely and excellent Romanian dentist is leaving. She's been our family NHS dentist for eight years. In her words 'it's just different here now'. Well done Leavers, I'm sure you'll all be celebrating the fact another immigrant is going, I know my racist Leaver mum will be happy about it.

So we should all have voted remain, to make your dentist happy?

No. We should all have voted Remain so that we retained our membership of the EU and retained our clout on the economic world stage.

Zero - absolutely zero - benefits to Brexshit. Apart from those like Rees Mogg.

Still, you will get your no deal Brexit that you all definitely voted for in 2016 despite Vote Leave campaigning on getting a deal. 😂