The NI border issue can never be resolved can it?

[Bearbehind]

We would have left by now if is wasn’t for the border issue in NI and I genuinely can’t see a positive outcome.

If, 20 years after the GFA, peace is still so fragile a border is incompressible and any other option basically breaks up the union - how can it ever end well?

Any suggestions from the it'll be fiiiine posters about how the 300 crossing points along the border would be managed?

Any suggestions from the it'll be fiiiine posters about how the 300 crossing points along the border would be managed?

David Davis -

"EU concerns about Northern Ireland becoming a back door into the EU for third-country goods is easily manageable. Much is made of the nearly 300 crossing points on the border, but little of the fact that there are barely half a dozen ports.This means surveillance on goods from the rest of the world into Northern Ireland is comparatively easy"

Yes because David Davis made such an excellent job of negiotiations because he had such a fantastic knowledge of the situation didn’t he?

This means surveillance on goods from the rest of the world into Northern Ireland is comparatively easy"

Back to the border in the sea? Which was the EU's proposal all along.

I think he's been watching too much Poldark if he thinks it's about NI ports. The fact that stuff can be smuggled into ROI and across the border. And vice versa - putting ROI to even more worry and expense to deal with a problem created by UK - obviously not occurred to him.

That would be a no then!

If you think paramilitaries are a small band, then I'm afraid I can't have a sensible conversation with you.Paramilitaries didn't go away, they lay dormant to adhere to the GFA because public opinion would have eviscerated them had they broken the ceasefire.

I think they number a hundred or so and the authorities probably know who most of them are already. Bombings, shootings and beatings are happening on a regular basis in NI - nothing to do with Brexit - all to do with drugs, guns, extortion and gang culture...One of the limitations of the GFA is that it gives a legitimacy to a certain amount of criminal behaviour - communities stick together and/or the authorities turn a blind eye. If the 'paramilitaries' step up their activity they risk their lucrative criminal operations being shut down - therefore, I don't think they will risk it.

Saying that - I still believe there will be a last-minute deal/bilateral agreement/customs arrangement to avoid a hard border.

Saying that - I still believe there will be a last-minute deal/bilateral agreement/customs arrangement to avoid a hard border.

Unless you mean the WA or something equivalent, it's not going to happen. The EU are very clear on that.

Do you remember the mainland IRA activity Clavinova ? Apart from not wanting things to kick off in Northern Ireland, I'm pretty sure no one wants ANY paramilitary action ANYWHERE. I'll never forget my brothers having to check under their cars before giving me a lift to school when I was 12. One brother had army plates on his car so it was a potential target. I've never known anxiety like it since. 1988-1991 were the most anxious of my life because of what was happening in Northern Ireland and the potential for my family to be directly affected. I can't begin to comprehend what people living there went through. There are no words to describe how appalling I find it and that our government was implicit.

Solutions have been suggested such as;

Freeport zone
Special Economic area in NI
Border in Irish Sea

Trying to please everyone will never happen. Make a decision and do it as doing things by committee always fails.

A border in Irish Sea would have worked, but the DUP was against it, and Theresa May and whoever follows her will still be dependent on them, unless a GE changes the Parliamentary arithmetic.

The DUP don't want NI to be different, except when it suits them, of course.

"The DUP don't want NI to be different, except when it suits them, of course."
Which is why civil rights still have to imposed on NI - equal marriage; right to chose - if Stormont doesn't start up again.

Exactly Peregrina. Thingscwoukd be very different if it weren't for the DUP. It would be interesting if we could do a sliding doors type thing where the DUP weren't propping up the Tory government, Stormont was sitting, and see how different things would be.

@Bercows , I find it hard to believe that if the government were not in hock to the DUP, that it would have created this all-UK arrangement to preserve the DUP's finer feelings. I also think Parliament with a full Tory majority would have waved through the NI backstop or said "it's that or the border in the sea". There might have been the odd ERG rebel but with enough Parliamentary numbers it wouldn't have mattered.
Ho him. Instead we have to endure this fake concern for the finer feelings of the DUP. Who couldn't even get NI on its side in the referendum.

Bercows
Do you remember the mainland IRA activity Clavinova?
I remember the two boys killed by the Warrington bomb.

There are no words to describe how appalling I find it and that our government was implicit.
Government policy is no justification for murder.

@Clavinova - Government policy is no justification for murder.

I agree with you there. However, when that same government is colluding with terrorists and committing murder on their own behalf, it does tend to lead to a murderous environment.

Have a look at ReMastered: The Miami Showband Massacre on Netflix.

I see @Clavinova doing the Faridge grandstanding on this issue. Downplaying the genuine risk of destroying the GFA by blustering platitudes.

Clavinova for your edification:

uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUKTRE74F31Q20110516

How convenient that you only remember the Warrington bomb. I remember it too because Warrington seemed such an odd target and we lived not very far away. However the main point was the fact those two lads had been out buying Mother's Day gifts.

That article doesn't list the 1996 Manchester bomb. Perhaps because thankfully no one was killed. I remember that only too well and saw first hand the devastation that was evident over a year afterwards.

I remember the Brighton bomb although I was only a child.

Mainland activity has not been anything like that in NI but any attack is one too many.

Have you conveniently forgotten about the letter bombs earlier this year? It's not over and brexit threatens the very fragile "peace" that we have. There will always be someone willing and able to carry out attacks but why make that more likely? Why give them an excuse?

I was in Manchester on that day. And there were others in Manchester before that. And London. And Birmingham. And many mainland places. As if activities in NI weren't horrific enough.

I think we need to scrap Brexit and focus on reforming Westminster. It's clearly not fit for purpose - even for England, let alone the rest of the UK. A decent dose of federalism sounds attractive.

I voted Remain because of the GFA. The facts were there, but most people preferred not to engage.

I have just posted on the other thread that maybe Clavinova could use her investigative powers to research the ongoing kneecapping and punishment beatings.
The GFA was just the start of a peace process, the work is not over yet, nor will be for many more years.

Bercows
How convenient that you only remember the Warrington bomb.

Not convenient at all, I assure you - I remember Tim Parry and Johnathan Ball very well - two innocent boys murdered. I remember when it looked as though Tim Parry would survive and his father saying his family would make a life for him - even though he was horribly injured. You seemed to be blaming the government - I blame the terrorists.

1tisILeClerc
I have answered you on the other thread.

Clavinova
Thank you.
It is this ongoing grief that needs to be repeated and called out to all that think that messing with the GFA is anything like a good idea.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-10866072

Ultimately whatever happens LEAVE voters have to come up with a solution to respect the GFA.

@Clavinova - who do you blame for the Ballymurphy massacre? What about Bloody Sunday?

What about the government policy of not prosecuting soldiers for murder and allowing the only 4 prosecuted for murder to rejoin the army after serving only 2 or 3 years of their life sentences?

1tisILeClerc

You have posted my link - are you claiming it for yourself?

Ultimately whatever happens LEAVE voters have to come up with a solution to respect the GFA.

No - I think the responsibility is on Westminster, Brussels and Dublin to come up with a solution together.