No Deal supporters? Can you see any downsides? If so, why are these outweighed by the upsides.

[bellinisurge]

Genuine question. I was prepared to accept WA but that was apparently not sufficient. So, why is No Deal better?

Back to the tangible vs intangible benefits of leave.
What are the intangible benefits of leave? It's easy to ignore financial insecurity when you are living on a final salary pension in a house you bought for 3k that is now worth 300k, but a bit more difficult if you are never going to have a pension, are never going to own your own house and now you don't know how Brexit is going to affect your job prospects. What are the 'non financial benefits' of Brexit? "The benefits for the likes of Jacob Rees Mogg and Boris Johnson are most certainly financial. For the rest of the population, I'm not sure what benefits they think they will gain.

What are the non financial benefits of Brexit

Only those that voted leave can answer that question, but as there are not 17.4 Million people who have final salary pensions and live in £300K houses there must have been some intangibles.

LeClerc made a good intangible analogy with Germany. They could tell the rest of Europe to go away and be better off, but choose to be in a large union even though it costs them a lot.

We keep asking and it keeps boiling down to feelz.

And feelz is what exactly?

Feel more sovereign, feel more patriotic, feel more like "the old days". That kind of thing. Being old with parents born in the 20s and 30s, "the old days" has a somewhat different meaning for me.

This point about the pound in your pocket being worth only 95p matters very little to most people. If your income and outgoings are all in pounds, you don't care at all, you only care about inflation and yes, a falling exchange rate will increase inflation, but it's not the only thing that influences inflation and inflation is there anyway. It only matters when you go on holiday abroad which is a very small part of most people's annual expenditure. There are advantages too to a weaker pound.
It matters a lot to people who have pound savings but live abroad all the time.

Feelz is the undefined principles that copper is blathering on about on the previous page. Mostly based on nonsense s/he has read in the mail/sun/tory that most balanced intelligent people can see is drivel. It’s not really based in reality, (or at least honest, balanced reality) but apparently it’s more important than jobs, a roof over your head and food on your table. Many people will truly struggle once this shitstorm comes to a head, but apparently it’ll all be worth it, for something that will make no positive difference to anyone and will cause an immense amount of damage. It has done already.

My opinion is that it’s the easy way out for bitter, lazy slightly dim people who, being simple, need simple answers for not so simple problems.

HTH.

To quite a leave voting acquaintance, leavers voted to leave to show the govt that 'we're not happy'. In closer questioning, she doesn't know or care what happens next. ''It's up to 'them' to sort it out'.

Simples

It only matters when you go on holiday abroad

As so often happens, I am baffled by megans post.

Of course the weak pound matters more than just when you go abroad - I can’t believe you actually said that.

Are you really saying you hadn’t worked out it means everything we import will cost more too?

And that this will have a particularly detrimental affect on food as we import so much, therefore affects everyone.

Sorry blasted kindle keeps changing my words. Quote. On.
Must read before sending!

{Are you really saying you hadn’t worked out it means everything we import will cost more too?}

Obviously the cogs aren't meshed properly in some cases.
The Pound goes down so imported food and products go up. Since around 40% of the food comes into the UK from or through the EU......
Click, click, click.

I know megan claims to be a Remainer, (although her arguments always make that hard to believe) but I really do despair at people’s inability to join the dots here.

And on the subject of why the Germans are happy to pay in for the sake of there being a united EU, they have an artificially depressed fx rate which supports their export industry.

Bear you have a problem with me because I am not an extreme remainer, but I've never pretended to be anything other than a moderate remainer, and I'm sure you will find that my posts have all been consistent with that. This is an extreme remainer board and any view that doesn't fit nicely into the echo chamber receives condescending nastiness from the handful of key posters who think they are so much cleverer than the rest. Just see LeClerc's post above - who talks to people like that in real life? Bellini asks for a reason to look on the bright side about Brexit - I give the only valid reason I can think of, stimulus package, but no you don't like it because you think that means I'm on the other side. No, I was answering the question. It says so much more about you than it says about me that you can't see that.

Are you really saying you hadn’t worked out it means everything we import will cost more too?

Didn't you read this part of my post?

and yes, a falling exchange rate will increase inflation, but it's not the only thing that influences inflation and inflation is there anyway

But Megan you wrote above that the pound tanking to infinity will have no effect on our lives outside apart from our holidays abroad. This is a really big failure of joining up the dots whether you’re a hard/soft remainer or not

Yes I did megan but you dismissed the part about inflation by saying inflation existed anyway and then specifically said it only matters when you go on holiday abroad

No. Let's try again.
I said that a falling fx rate was bad for inflation (let's all try to "join the dots" here..... that means that things will cost more, right?) but that other than that, life would go on as normal for most people, because the incomings and their outgoings are all in pounds. Except if they go on holiday (only two weeks worth of expense a year, say) or live abroad (matters a lot).

Seriously megan if you don’t understand that rising prices, due to the weaker pound, directly caused by the Brexit process, will hit people in the pocket ie, they have less, if any, pounds left each month because the earn / receive the same but everything costs more then I give up.

{Just see LeClerc's post above - who talks to people like that in real life?}

With 17.4 million who either can't work it out that Brexit is a crap idea or they just don't give a shit about anyone else as long as they get their 'feelz' what are people that DO care, in fact they care an awful lot, supposed to do.
ANYBODY continuing the pretense that all will be fine is lying and needs to be called out for it. It's not fine now, and it can only get worse.
Are the several hundred presumably well paid employees that are being made redundant at Deutche Bank today, are they fine? It is not just that they are being made redundant, as part of the reason for it is restructuring anyway, but the comment that there are virtually no similar jobs for them to seek reemployment.

It would have been impossible to misinterpret if I had added the word "otherwise it only matters......" but the gist of it is clear and I think pretty hard to misinterpret anyway. You really do fall over yourself to find fault Bear, and then the usual posters all pile in.

megan you originally said people now only having 95p in every £1 wouldn’t affect them unless they went abroad.

Back track all you like but that was completely incorrect and totally naive.

Going abroad barely registers on the total costs so wasn’t even necessary to comment on unless you were trying to prove the weak pound wasn’t really an issue.

I said that a falling fx rate was bad for inflation (let's all try to "join the dots" here..... that means that things will cost more, right?) but that other than that, life would go on as normal for most people,

No, I’m managing to join the dots alright. There are a great deal of most people as you put it that are currently struggling. How does the pound tanking not effect them? Ditto business. What are some of our key industries saying on this? Haulage and farming?

Watching Panorama on this subject atm.. really really chilling stuff.

Are the several hundred presumably well paid employees that are being made redundant at Deutche Bank today, are they fine?

Of course they are not fine and you seem to intimate that you know this is nothing to do with Brexit, but why mention it then in this context? The FT article today is quite clear: it specifically says that Mr Sewing blamed his predecessors, accusing them of creating a “culture of poor capital allocation” and chasing revenue for the sake of revenue. Nothing to do with Brexit at all.

you only care about inflation - that bit. Did you read that bit Bear? In the first post? At 17.56?