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Brexit

What are the real tangible benefits of the UK leaving the EU ?

289 replies

frumpety · 03/07/2019 07:43

I assume there must be at least a couple, things that can be said with certainty, that will improve the lives of UK citizens. I am not talking about the 'feelings' stuff like sovereignty, I mean if the UK leaves the EU , X will happen and this will automatically improve the lives of the majority of the people in the UK. There has to be at least one ?

OP posts:
tenredthings · 04/07/2019 05:52

The death of our industries will mean we'll meet our global emissions target. The rising costs of importing food will stop the obesity crisis.

OP posts:
LifeContinues · 04/07/2019 08:36

They said the benefits of destroying coal mining in this country would outweigh the negatives

I am from a North East mining village. The NUM strike in 1984/1985 is still talked about now. Many villages are like ghost towns and derelict. Some villages had parties in 2013 when Mrs.Thatcher died and were very happy that the witch was dead. Wow.

Was closing down the mining industry in the UK correct? Yes it was, but like Brexit it was badly implemented. My approach would have been to;

Announce that coal industry will be wound down to forewarn
As people retired don't take on any new starters
If a mine is exhausted then it must be closed

Redundancy packages were generous and many received pensions that were seven eighths of their earnings plus lump sum of around 1,500 per year of service.

Thatcher's decision to kill the miners overnight was more of a political move against trade unions in general along the lines;

"mess with me and this is the result"

Thatcher planned it for years to avenge the defeat of Ted Heath by the NUM in 1974. Power stations were converted to Oil and Gas. Coal was stockpiled, Deals made with transport industry. Police given good pay rises so they would jump when instructed.

It worked too as Strike lasted over a year and electricity supply was not interrupted once. Scargill made a hash of it as national ballot was not called. This made the strike illegal and strike funds were snatched. Also miners who thought their pits and jobs were safe did not want to strike. Another crafty move by Thatcher. Let them weaken themselves by fighting among each other.

Where's the magic money tree to help wrecked industries and communities

Brexit Party has suggested 200 Billion to regenerate the areas that UK has forget since the shift from Manufacturing to Services industry.

wheresmymojo · 04/07/2019 08:56

The Brexit Party and Tories can promise all this spending now - but when the income from taxes drops because of the impact of no deal....where will the money come from to fund it?

1tisILeClerc · 04/07/2019 08:58

{Brexit Party has suggested 200 Billion to regenerate}

So where is this money coming from, since the UK is still in austerity mode?

wheresmymojo · 04/07/2019 09:09

@frumpety

The link you posted on tampon tax makes it clear that it's only possible to do when the EU implements changes to VAT policy.

In 2016 when the paper you link to was published the EU Commission had (as the paper states) noted their intention to do so.

It still hasn't actually made this change yet.

While I'm pro-EU this is a good example of the wheels turning ridiculously slowly...the UK have been asking for a change to EU VAT laws for six years to make this possible.

So while still being a solid Remainer - I can appreciate that there are areas that need reform and I do think the EU has been arrogant in ignoring the increasingly louder calls for reform.

I think they need to take onboard the fact that some things do need to be improved (nothing is perfect) and deal with them. This would have avoided Brexit and would also calm some of the populist movements in other countries.

1tisILeClerc · 04/07/2019 09:14

wheresmymojo
The EU is very aware of many problems but negotiating between so many members on a 'carrot' basis, rather than 'stick' and forcing change, takes more time. Consider that the UK gov have taken 3 years already to get to the start point for negotiations to leave the EU. Signing the WA is the Beginning, not an end to negotiations.
A 'crash out' is not immediate, it will still take another 12 months, most likely. A WA signed before crashing out can be say 2 years (if it is very quick and decisive) or as many years as are requested in the PD.

1tisILeClerc · 04/07/2019 09:16

wheresmymojo
There is also the issue that the UK government has almost stopped doing the day to day work, while it farts about with Brexit.

bellinisurge · 04/07/2019 09:54

And doesn't your experience show you what short sharp shocks do to local economies. I am old enough to have been an adult during the miners' strike. And seeing first hand the impact that had on people is one of the reasons I am against No Deal. I have seen how communities get damaged and left behind by this sort of upheaval.
You should see that too.

indistinct · 04/07/2019 12:03

@wheresmymojo - vat on tampons is a good example of some of the bad things about the EU (eg takes too much time to correct bad legislation). To be fair I think this is why QMV is being introduced by EU so that 1 country can’t unreasonably hold up progress by abusing its veto (I think taxation might be excluded from QMV though). I think few remainers see the EU project as an unalloyed good; suspect most remainers voted remain on balance. It’s good for remainers to acknowledge EU flaws to show leavers that remaining doesn’t mean whole hearted support for EU (as is often claimed). It demonstrates the nuance and pragmatism of remain position and by contrast the lack of these qualities in many of the views adopted by leavers.

Peregrina · 04/07/2019 12:18

Just for once, apart from the last sentence I find myself in agreement with LifeContinues on the Miners strike.

Well, I don't disagree with the last sentence either, but as far as anything the Brexit Party promises it's pie in the sky - unless Farage can persuade his wealthy chums to unstitch their pockets.

frumpety · 04/07/2019 19:20

Wheresmymojo sorry I posted that link in haste and presumed as there is already a 0% rate of VAT available in the legislation that it would simply be the case of the UK government applying to allow sanitary protection to be included ? There are several countries in the EU that have certain services/products included in a 0% bracket. The republic of Ireland have sanitary protection already in a 0% bracket but think this is a historical thing that was already in place prior to joining the EU ?
Did you notice the date of the link ? I wonder how many other things have fallen by the wayside as a result of the result of the referendum ?

OP posts:
frumpety · 04/07/2019 19:53

So has anyone come up with a definite answer to my original question ?

OP posts:
Jason118 · 04/07/2019 19:59

There aren't any.

frumpety · 05/07/2019 07:42

Sadly, that does seem to be the conclusion Jason .

OP posts:
LifeContinues · 05/07/2019 08:28

Sadly, that does seem to be the conclusion Jason

Which is why I think there must be intangible reasons why people voted to Leave. ie things that make people feel better in themselves even of there is no financial reward or even costs them.

LeClerc made a similar point about Germany in that they could tell the rest of the EU to go away and be better off, but they like the idea of a large union even though it costs them a lot.

bellinisurge · 05/07/2019 08:35

Because all major decisions that affect millions of people who don't agree with you should only be made on feelings. ConfusedHmm

1tisILeClerc · 05/07/2019 08:58

{Which is why I think there must be intangible reasons why people voted to Leave.}

Whether it is lack of education, failure to think rationally or just happy to believe in any old claptrap the 'Leave' campaigners came up with there are no compelling reasons to actually leave the EU.

No one is totally 'free' of any laws and restrictions, certainly if they wish to live a civilised life.

frumpety · 05/07/2019 09:42

Which is why I think there must be intangible reasons why people voted to Leave. ie things that make people feel better in themselves even of there is no financial reward or even costs them.

I completely get this Lifecontinues , however I had assumed that there would be something tangible that someone who voted remain or leave , could look and think , 'well at least there is X' not 'well at least the Smiths at number 7 look happier this week' Smile

OP posts:
LifeContinues · 05/07/2019 10:27

Because all major decisions that affect millions of people who don't agree with you should only be made on feelings

Had the result been remain, I think Leave supporters would have said the same.

LifeContinues · 05/07/2019 10:35

there are no compelling reasons to actually leave the EU

So based on your logic there are 17.4 Million people who are either;

uneducated. UK is ranked 13th in the World for IQ.

incapable of rational thinking. UK is ranked 13th in the World for IQ

believed everything the Leave campaign promoted. Or alternatively did not believe anything that Remain campaign promoted so voted Leave as it was the only other alternative on the Ballot Paper?

LifeContinues · 05/07/2019 10:36

No one is totally 'free' of any laws and restrictions, certainly if they wish to live a civilised life

True, but nice to be able to pick your own.

bellinisurge · 05/07/2019 10:46

I don't like the way my local council focuses on different towns in our borough. Do I declare a Passport To Pimlico-esque UDI around my house? Or do I get involved in what's happening in our area? @LifeContinues

placemats · 05/07/2019 11:22

UK is ranked 13th in the World for IQ.

The average IQ in the UK is 100. Two thirds of those born in the UK have an IQ below 115.

My IQ is 123.

www.bbc.co.uk/testthenation/iq_norms.shtml

placemats · 05/07/2019 11:24

To add:

IQ rates are higher for those in born Scotland and Northern Ireland, with Wales slightly behind.

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