There really is no point trying to persuade Leavers....

[Closertotheheart]

As the title suggests really. There is no point trying to reason a debate with them as they are totally tunnel-visioned. Loads of them seem to think we should leave without a deal and go on to WTO rules.

They blame the Remainers in parliament for us having not left yet.

They blame Remainers in general for, well, seemingly anything and everything.

They blame the EU for us not having left yet.

They spout myth as if it was fact.

I despair. There really is no point trying to reason with them.

I'm at the point where I feel there is nothing left to say on the topic so let them have their 'victory' so at least they will have no one to blame.

I am loving the idea that voting Brexit is for PEACE

twitter.com/JamesMelville/status/1145422913916551170

Just look at the state of the Farage / Brexit Party rally (with air raid sirens). Britain is in an era of demagogue populism and xenophobia. There are parallels with the early 1930’s Weimar Republic. We forget the tragic lessons of history at our peril.

Nuremberg, here we come.

"Understand or not people can choose how they vote."
Patronising twaddle @LifeContinues .i have said that I am prepared to accept a Brexit via WA. Why is that not respecting the referendum? It is this No Deal mania among Leavers that is the problem.

Just when you thought the crazies couldn't get any crazier, this was on my fb feed

That's Brexiteer logic for you

But those 2 things have been categorically proven to be lies

Have they? There can't be 350 Million per for NHS or anything else until Brexit happens.

Immigration is more difficult to measure as there are arguments for and against.

And the economy is diving even before we have left

Data on the internet shows UK GDP has grown more than both that of France and Germany since 2016?

Have they? There can't be 350 Million per for NHS or anything else until Brexit happens

Are you for real?? Course there can, it's just our government choosing not to. They bought the DUP, funnily they can probably find money to go to war against Iran in the not too distant future.

Do you never wonder why we've had near ten years of austerity yet the national debt had almost doubled in that time? Foes it not make you question where that money is going, considering the Tories are still cutting everything. They could bloody find the NHS now if they wanted to.

What do you think of the Jeremy Hunts plans to privatise the NHS? I don't think BoJo would be any different. Have you read the Naylor Report?

@LifeContinues you're making yourself look silly.

Data on the internet shows UK GDP has grown more than both that of France and Germany since 2016?

Do you have a link for that?

Experts predict disaster- why not believe THEM? People who ACTUALLY know their stuff?

As these the same experts that predicted disaster just by voting to leave even before UK left the EU?

Where were the Experts before; the stock market crash in 1987, the plummet in house prices in late 80s and early 90s, the World financial crash in 2007, the drop in Oil Price to US$32 per barrel in 2015.

Can't convince myself that anyone even with benefit of hindsight can predict the future with certainty. If they could they would own the World surely as could outguess the stock market every time. Others might disagree.

My mum who is a leader hant been able to give me any reason apart from 'I don't want to be told what to do by Europe' (can't give any examples of this happening) and something about 'wonky carrots being allowed to be sold.

She claims it's nothing to do with immigration but 'we are full as a nation you know'.
Can't argue with any of those points 🙄

To CloseHeart,

350 Million per week is the UK's gross payment to the EU. So as long as UK is still in the EU then UK has to make payment. This was the point made in the Leave campaign. After leaving the EU the UK could spend the money that was previously sent to the EU on NHS.

Whether or not that is what happens remains to be seen of course as Tax cuts have been mentioned by BoJo.

Hmmm and chances of 350mn going to the NHS from Novemeber 1st....?

Answers on a postcard please.
I won't hold my breath.

Can't convince myself that anyone even with benefit of hindsight can predict the future with certainty

I agree. Who predicted the Berlin Wall would come down when it did? Certainly on the morning of November 9th 1989 no one had any idea that it was going to happen that night.

Theres a sign up in my local museum that says it is part funded by EU money (to which we contribute).

If/when we leave, I cant see the government suddenly giving money to support things like the arts and local history in communities. Hell, they've already cut loads and that's before we've even left.

What level of 'expert knowledge' does one need to claim that Brexit will be a shit idea?

To History Sock

Hahaha. My parents have said similar such as;

Do bananas not taste the same no matter what shape they are?

EU meddles in everything. Car insurance for female drivers increased in the UK to align with those premiums paid by make drivers as EU thought it was discriminatory even though the Insurers had statistic to prove that female drivers were a lower risk.

Immigration gets hammered too by my parents.

@LifeContinues if I send my dd off alone to play in the road, chances are she will get hit by a car. She might not but she probably will - busy road; rat run; bus route; narrow ... that kind of thing.
I don't say "well, she might be ok, who knows, and if she gets hit by a car it'll be the driver's fault ". I say "don't put yourself in that situation.
I know BeLeavers are triggered by the use of analogies. I'm not sure you are a BeLeaver.

To Bells

WA was rejected three times by Parliament by significant numbers so obviously they thought it was a bad deal. T. May did not help by trying to keep it secret from the public that the WA could have resulted in UK being tied to EU forever due to the backstop issue.

Your analogy about playing in the road is based on hindsight in that there have been many accidents and even deaths on roads due to people crossing without looking. However, a recent case ruled that the cyclist who hit a young woman crossing the road whilst looking at her mobile was at fault as he should be prepared for pedestrians to act unexpectedly. Wow.

Brexit has no hindsight as it has never happened before. Hence why I can't convince myself that it is a certain disaster. Even if it does turn out to be a bad idea people have the option to change their minds at a later date and apply to rejoin the EU.

A good deal would be better than a no deal for sure. However, if a good deal can't be made then a WTO deal is the only option left.

What constitutes a good or a bad deal is personal opinion just like the vote cast in 2016.

Feelzzzzzzz

That's the thing op. To my mind the EU protects us from our own shower of shit politicians. Funding for arts, the nhs, farming, social care-which of those things are we confident they will spend the money we won't be spending on the EU on?
I'm not holding my breath for a suddenly fair and egalitarian side of our current politicians to come out.
And that's before we even start on trading, borders, free movement etc etc.
I can't, still can't despite looking, see one good thing about leaving.

{350 Million per week is the UK's gross payment to the EU. So as long as UK is still in the EU then UK has to make payment}
For a start the amount paid is a bit over half of that amount but far more relevant the UK only pays about 0.7% of the GDP to the EU, thus allowing the UK to spend 99.3% as it wishes.
Actually around 2% is supposed to be spent towards defence/NATO.

The WA is NOT a deal. It is essentially the 'ground rules' to START making a deal.

{EU meddles in everything. }
The UK is PART of the EU and in many cases it is the UK that is proposing and writing the 'EU' rules. legislation for clean beaches was a UK led initiative as are much of the conservation legislation.
Some EU legislation as enacted in the UK is made tougher BY THE UK, who have 'enhanced' the basic ruling by the EU, thus making it tougher for UK citizens.

Still, as the OP pointed out, there is no point trying to persuade 'leavers'.

However, if a good deal can't be made then a WTO deal is the only option left.

And how does that sit well with Brexiteers??

What level of 'expert knowledge' does one need to claim that Brexit will be a shit idea?

Same level as that required to claim Remain will be a shit idea

{350 Million per week is the UK's gross payment to the EU. So as long as UK is still in the EU then UK has to make payment}
For a start the amount paid is a bit over half of that amount

Read carefully the word gross. After the rebate is applied the net amount is lower. Net figures vary between 200 Million and 250 Million thereabouts.

Read carefully the word gross. After the rebate is applied the net amount is lower. Net figures vary between 200 Million and 250 Million thereabouts.

Eh? You’ve been quoting the £350m fully understanding it is not the net figure so it can never be the amount in question anyway. Weird 🤔