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Brexit

There really is no point trying to persuade Leavers....

523 replies

Closertotheheart · 25/06/2019 19:21

As the title suggests really. There is no point trying to reason a debate with them as they are totally tunnel-visioned. Loads of them seem to think we should leave without a deal and go on to WTO rules.

They blame the Remainers in parliament for us having not left yet.

They blame Remainers in general for, well, seemingly anything and everything.

They blame the EU for us not having left yet.

They spout myth as if it was fact.

I despair. There really is no point trying to reason with them.

I'm at the point where I feel there is nothing left to say on the topic so let them have their 'victory' so at least they will have no one to blame.

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LifeContinues · 02/07/2019 12:22

I bet if you were in the UK you would have voted leave

Most likely, but not because of immigration. I work outside of UK most of the time. So I am an immigrant in other Countries. So it would be wrong for me to say UK should not allow immigrants into the UK when other countries allow me into their Countries to work.

Closertotheheart · 02/07/2019 12:24

Well considering you've done fuck all research, I'm not sure how you've come to the conclusion you'd have voted leave.

Confirmation bias I guess.

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LifeContinues · 02/07/2019 12:28

but they could at least have the good grace and audacity to consider their impact on their fellow humans before casting such a narrow minded vote

Maybe mother and father at age of 76 and 85 respectively think they are entitled to vote for what they think is in their interests as opposed to others?

LifeContinues · 02/07/2019 12:30

I'm not sure how you've come to the conclusion you'd have voted leave

I trust the opinions of those who have created businesses more than self serving MP's.

Closertotheheart · 02/07/2019 12:31

What has there age got to do with anything??? Am I expected to give them credence for being elderly? What batshit logic is this?

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bellinisurge · 02/07/2019 12:33

@LifeContinues appears to want to stick it to The Man and saw Brexit referendum as a chance to do this. A tattoo would have been easier and wouldn't have dragged everyone else with you.

Closertotheheart · 02/07/2019 12:34

I trust the opinions of those who have created businesses more than self serving MP's

Illogical, some MPs voted remain, some voted Leave.

FYI, whilst were on the topic of age, my dad is 74. He voted remain. Should people give his opinion credibility because he happens to be in his 70s?

You talk out your arse, Life. Did bugger all research and come on here to preach about how remainers haven't got a clue. The hypocrisy stinks.

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IVFNewbie · 02/07/2019 12:36

Blimey- what a lot of pious preachers on this thread.

Peregrina · 02/07/2019 12:44

Time after time we hear Leavers say, "I didn't vote Leave because of immigration", or " I didn't believe the promises on the side of the bus" and then whoops, some other Leaver comes in a few posts later to talk about immigration or the NHS. Time after time.

Did your parents object to tax cuts for the wealthy LifeContinues or money spent on Trident? Or is some wasted money acceptable?

... the North East there isn't all that much immigration

Wrong. No, I am right as it happens.
Migration levels

"The UK region with the lowest proportion of non-British nationals is North East England (4%)."

There is a handy map which shows that Sunderland has 1% immigration. My area has 11%. Guess which one voted Remain?

So those of you Leavers who come on to blather about immigration at least have the grace to say that there isn't much in your area and you are xenophobes. Own it if you believe it.

Peregrina · 02/07/2019 12:49

I trust the opinions of those who have created businesses more than self serving MP's.

Then they must be extremely disappointed in the two candidates for PM - Fuck Business Johnson and Hunt telling businesses 'with a heavy heart' that they would go bankrupt.

Closertotheheart · 02/07/2019 12:52

I hope you Leavers get your precious No Deal Brexit. Yeah we'll all be fucked, but hey, democracy!

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Peregrina · 02/07/2019 12:59

I hope you Leavers get your precious No Deal Brexit.

I hope they do too and the areas which don't have many immigrants see an influx of people from South East Asia and sub-Saharan Africa to replace the EU citizens lost. We would then find out if they were racist or not.

Closertotheheart · 02/07/2019 13:05

Indeed Peregrina.

Bet they all believed the 'Breaking Point' posters. Cant believe its 2019 and people still have an issue with migration. It's what humans have done for aeons, ffs. It happens, get over it.

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1tisILeClerc · 02/07/2019 13:08

{ people still have an issue with migration. It's what humans have done for aeons}

With the obvious irony that almost all in the UK are descended from immigrants.

Peregrina · 02/07/2019 13:09

Looking at the migration map I linked to, of the Leave Central areas, Boston does stand out as having very high levels. I can imagine that this might put a strain on some local facilities; strains which could have been alleviated if our Government had chosen to do so.

What the migration map doesn't show is how many people have black or brown skins, who may or may not be migrants. This is really what the anti immigrant people are getting at, those and the E Europeans.

Bearbehind · 02/07/2019 13:10

closer it’s what I’ve been saying from the start of this thread, and well before it too.

The whole reason it’s pointless discussing this with Leavers is logic has gone out of the window.

Brexit for those who still want it at any price, is all about immigration and xenophobia. Even things like ‘EU meddling’ is because they’re foreigners.

As peregrina says, goodness only knows what will happen when we’ve left and there’s an increase in black and brown faces - they will be raging.

Closertotheheart · 02/07/2019 13:10

Exactly. Unless they have pure Celtic blood, if they voted on grounds of immigration, they should STFU.

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Peregrina · 02/07/2019 13:17

Or what will happen when the find the Chinese have taken over the country?

Closertotheheart · 02/07/2019 13:22

I'd find it funny if there was a mass influx and their children and their childrens children go onto breed, creating a vast melting pot. That would be the icing.

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Tabitha005 · 02/07/2019 13:26

I find contradictions everywhere in the Brexit question among my friends and family; for example, my mother and father, who love holidaying in France and are seriously considering buying a house there to live in permanently, voted leave.

My usually very mild-mannered mother recently went on a crazy rant about 'immigrants' recently (complete with finger-pointing), saying that the NHS couldn't cope with their numbers and banging on about 'health tourism'. Both of these 'issues' have been proven time and again not to be the 'thing' stretching the NHS, but she was on a roll.

Next, she started bemoaning the fact that you can't buy unrefrigerated seafood outside of pubs in the east end of London 'like you could in the fifties'. Quite apart from the fact that my mother hasn't even been to a pub in the east end of London SINCE the 1950s, why would anyone who wasn't in the market for shitting out their own entrails from a massive dose of rancid cockles even WANT to purchase unrefrigerated seafood - from outside a pub in the east end of London or anywhere else?

I think the gist of this bizarre rant was something about an EU law demanding purveyors of seafood outside pubs refrigerate their molluscs! When I gently attempted to intervene and suggest that it was more likely our own, UK-made, legislation that had effected this, she refused to even entertain the idea.

Conversely, two of my old schoolfriends, who sometimes display racist and intolerant attitudes towards anyone 'not like them' (but also never interact with anyone 'not like them') both voted remain and are broken-hearted about potentially not being able to travel freely within Europe*. For them, that's the ENTIRE Brexit issue. Even though they wouldn't entertain the idea of having friends from different nationalities, cultures, religions or socio-economic backgrounds (strictly white working class all the way for these gals), they don't see any negative issues stemming from immigration at all - their particular brand of racism is derived wholly from the inherited ideals and beliefs of their parents and older siblings. They live in a bubble, really, and don't tend to widen their world view or experience through any tangible means. I was astounded when they both said they'd voted remain.

*by 'travel freely', I mean 'go on holiday in Greek & Spanish resorts catering exclusively to British tourists'.

My parents' politics have done a complete one-eighty since they moved from south east London six years ago to the Kent coast; to a sort of semi-retirement enclave for increasingly intolerant baby boomers. My father was a fully-paid up member of the Socialist Workers Party in the 70s, and now he carries on like the Alan Sugar of Thanet.

LifeContinues · 02/07/2019 13:40

?What has there age got to do with anything???

Nothing, but when I am in my 70's or 80s I can't see myself voting for what is better for others in preference to what I think is better for myself.

preach about how remainers haven't got a clue

When it comes to democracy I not sure that some who voted remain do have a clue.

52% will always be bigger than 48%. If after leaving the EU people think that it was a bad idea they are entitled to vote to re-join if they are given that choice. Several panellists on QT, those who voted remain included, have stated that Votes must be implemented in the order they are cast. If not then there is no democracy.

Makes sense to me.

Remain supporters seem to be saying they can forecast the future with certainty. Hence Leave vote must be ignored as it is a certain disaster.

Don't believe that anyone can forecast the future with complete certainty. If they could they would be able to bet on the Stock Market and never lose. Their wealth would dwarf the likes of Bill Gates, Zuckerberg the FB guy, etc.

There have been some valid points about Healthcare, Jobs, GFA, etc., but those subjects should have been researched before a referendum was called. Another example of remain arrogance some might say. Cameron was sure Remain would win.

Closertotheheart · 02/07/2019 13:55

Nothing, but when I am in my 70's or 80s I can't see myself voting for what is better for others in preference to what I think is better for myself

I wholly disagree with this. I think at any age I would consider the wider impact of my vote. You're basically stripping peoples rights. I don't think I myself at any age could live with that.

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Closertotheheart · 02/07/2019 13:58

Yeah the only thing we both agree on is that Cameron was arrogant. Most people I spoke to didn't know how the referendum result was going to go. Rather much like now, we still don't know if were leaving with No Deal. I couldn't possibly say and neither can most people I speak to when I ask them 'what do you reckon will happen come October 31st?'

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Peregrina · 02/07/2019 17:14

Nothing, but when I am in my 70's or 80s I can't see myself voting for what is better for others in preference to what I think is better for myself.

Well, I jolly well can, and I am less than 18 months away from 70 now. My thinking is, I may have 20 years left if I live as long as my parents, or 4 years left if I only live as long as my grandparents. Whose future is at stake? Mine or my DC's with 40 ish years left or GDCs with 70 -80 years left?

Peregrina · 02/07/2019 17:18

Yeah the only thing we both agree on is that Cameron was arrogant.

So we are very likely to get another arrogant old Etonian inflicted on us.