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Brexit

Westministenders: The start of our fourth year of fun

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 24/06/2019 10:47

Do you remember when politics was boring?

This week we have had a Tory MP recalled, a Tory MP caught on film appearing to assault a protester and our likely Tory prime minister caught on tape having a serious row with his girlfriend which resulted in the police being called.

This is a government with a majority of 3 (with the DUP).

There are apparently 100 MPs who are not on board with no deal, but its not clear how far they will go to try and stop this. We do have Dominic Grieve stating that if Johnson is elected leader he will not become PM as he will not have the confidence of the house and can not go to the Queen to say he has. He has recently said he would resign the Tory Whip if necessary, which he has not previously said. The government has only to lose 2 more MPs for it to lose its majority...

It is important to remember that until Johnson goes to the Queen, May remains PM and retains the powers of the office. Could he become leader but not PM?

This crisis would most likely lead to a GE. The only real question would be over the timing over this. Would it be immediate or strung out over the summer? At this point this does look highly likely before October.

If the Tory moderates get their way, then the ERG hardliners hit back and do the same thing even with the looming threat of the Brexit Party or a Remain surge.

Its hard to see how we AVOID Brenda from Bristol being tracked down for a rent-a-quote. And there is a strong possibility of another Tory Leadership Election before the year is out, under several scenarios.

Meanwhile the EU Brexit Team has largely broken up, with most of its lead players having new personal priorities with internal EU elections. Our biggest ally in Tusk will no longer be there to protect us, so EU politics post 31st October could look quite different, and less favourable, to the UK.

Whilst the talk around parliament from seems to indicate that the UK will look for another extension (and this includes from Camp Johnson), this is very inward looking. At some point there needs to be a wakeup call that the EU want us out, and will be prepared to force us to no deal whether we like it or not.

Equally the idea that we could have a PV is also dependant now on EU good will, as we've faffed about for so long with Tory Brats. And relies on the EU still being keen on another referendum. Will this come to a head with the EU saying no and shattering the hopes of the other side of the house?

At this point, what happens with the Withdrawal Agreement? The idea that the withdrawal agreement is dead isn't quite as clear cut as you might think. If its a choice in parliament on the very last day of No Deal v the Withdrawal Agreement what will they do? Will they recognise the moment? Certainly I think there are a few opposition MPs who HAVE started to notice this is a possibility this time around. Its still largely unspoken though. No one wants to acknowledge political reality.

We still haven't hit the wall of reality. We avoided in March. But its still there and no going away.

I think there are two things we can count on over the next few weeks; more outrage and chaos and a slow dawning of the realisation that May was dreadful, but it really could be worse.

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ContinuityError · 28/06/2019 12:27

Just watching Johnson being questioned at the SW hustings - couldn’t believe the question about demanding repayment of the UK loans to Ireland in order to bring Ireland to heel.

WTAF?

derxa · 28/06/2019 12:39

I'd be amazed if his local takewaways take orders from him. Shock

Cailleach1 · 28/06/2019 12:55

It was a quite high interest loan, wasn't? If the Irish state hadn't bailed out the private debts of the Irish banks, investors who went for high risk, high return investments would have lost their money. They invested in a way rather like gambling and I don't believe a lot of due diligence was carried out by the investors. There was a lot of British investment (amongst others, including things like pension funds) in these private banks.

When the Irish gov't decided the state would take on and to pay back the debts of these private banks, the UK gave the loan to Ireland to protect their own investors. And make a nice profit, too boot. Many Irish people think the banks should have not been made sovereign debt (by the Irish gov't) and those reckless, gambling investors should have lost their money. It was private debt and it was not the responsibility of the Irish state to pay them back. There would have been no loan if Ireland did not take on this debt, those gambling investors would have had to take their losses. Instead of being reimbursed by Irish tax payers and paid a handsome profit on the loan. Iceland didn't make their population carry the losses.

I'm rambling, so I'll stop now.

www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/ireland-pays-more-than-400m-in-interest-on-uk-bailout-loan-1.3053791

BigChocFrenzy · 28/06/2019 12:59

I'm no longer shocked by such disgusting attitudes to Ireland from Brexiters, Continuity

Demands to "bring Ireland to heel" are quite mainstream fromBrexiters,
despite claims by howabout and other Brexiters that it is the EU using Ireland as leverage ....

Crispin Blunt MP last month condemned UK negotiators for not using Ireland as a "hostage" 🤬

Crispin Blunt MPP@CrispinBlunt*

UK side had the money, the people, the huge trade deficit, amongst other advantages,
including a hostage, the RoI, if EU behaved like this.

We capitulated.
....
Priti Patel back in December advocated "starving out" the Irish🤬
(twat not realising they can easily feed their own population - it's the UK who can't)

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-ireland-food-shortages-threat-risk-priti-patel-negotiate-better-deal-a8672326.html

Britain should use the potential damage to the Irish economy,
including possible food shortages,
to secure a better Brexit deal from the EU, a former cabinet minister has suggested.

Cailleach1 · 28/06/2019 13:03

Priti Patel's statement is beyond belief.

BigChocFrenzy · 28/06/2019 13:31

Being furious that the UK did NOT use Ireland as a hostage is outrageous too.

I suspect this is the real plan BJ and other rightwing Brexiter MPs have to force a better deal,
not their fantasies about alternative tech and GATT24

RedToothBrush · 28/06/2019 13:43

The EU knew a long time ago that the UK would try and be an arse to Ireland because of NI.

So did we, the moment people talked about it not being their circus and their monkeys.

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Peregrina · 28/06/2019 14:06

Can you remember who said Not my circus, not my monkeys?

As an individual voting in a Referendum, it might be an understandable position to take. For anyone in Government, such a position is inexcusable.

Cailleach1 · 28/06/2019 14:19

Oh, absolutely. It would be more of a surprise if Westminster didn't try to screw Ireland over, though. Certainly with the throwback attitude Brexit has brought to the fore. Westminster are happy to screw over British people. EU membership and the GFA had done quite a lot to improve relations. Improved the situation of Irish people in NI as well, which was quite an open sore.

The famine/great hunger devastated Ireland. People need not have starved to death. Food was being exported from a land where people were dying. The landlord system was often absentee and overall did not really step up. May even have hoped for a clearance. In light of this history, Patel's casual reminder of British MP's being happy to deliberately starve Irish people sends a shiver down the spine. As good a reminder as you can get how good independence from Britain has been for Ireland. Probably increased the positive feeling towards EU membership.

RedToothBrush · 28/06/2019 14:26

What is it 11% of Irish Citizens who support Irexit?

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RedToothBrush · 28/06/2019 14:48

yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/06/28/jeremy-hunt-now-leads-boris-johnson-publics-prefer
Hunt overtakes Johnson as the public's preferred Prime Minister

Jeremy Hunt now leads Boris Johnson as the public's preferred successor by 41% to 29%. Among Conservative voters, Johnson is ahead by 48% to 39%.

Johnson was supposed to be the magic bullet with wider tory party appeal for a GE.

Not so.

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TheABC · 28/06/2019 15:02

It really feels like the Tories are doing their best to live up to the Nasty Party label. Still waiting for any sign of a credible opposition from, well anyone.

I am currently daydreaming about the SNP or Cymru party going UK wide and taking over. It would certainly be a wake up call for some of the disgusting entitlement seen by the English dominated parties.

If federalisation did happen for the UK, would it still be dominated by England or could the other countries club together to weight the votes in their favour?

Iambuffy · 28/06/2019 15:27

How is the Ireland news to anyone?

BigChocFrenzy · 28/06/2019 15:37

We thought May was sounding a warning to Tories with her "Nasty Party" speech as Party Chair, some years ago

We should have realised it was a job description

DGRossetti · 28/06/2019 16:32

What happens when the Hunt/Johnson split is 52/48 ?

Icantreachthepretzels · 28/06/2019 16:37

52% is an overwhelming majority that can never be gainsaid - you know that DGR - the winner will be declared supreme overlord by the 'will of the only people who matter' and the 48% who didn't vote for them will simply cease to exist. Just like remainers.

Grinchly · 28/06/2019 17:48

Putin's comments about liberalism being obsolete and praising populism this morning.

So chilling. Gloves are off.

Songsofexperience · 28/06/2019 17:48

That's democracy, new style (aka mob rule where the minority has no voice).

Has anyone ventured in AIBU recently? There was a thread about the alt right. The window has really shifted...

DGRossetti · 28/06/2019 17:55

Of course now it's been realised that Brexiteers will sacrifice everything for Brexit, it's hardly a surprise that everything is going ...

www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1139165/Pensions-bus-passes-bbc-tv-licences

Just a few weeks ago, a report from the Lords committee on intergenerational fairness called for an end to the triple lock guarantee, which currently ensures the state pension rises by at least 2.5 percent per year. The report says the benefit should instead rise in line with average wages. It also recommended abolishing the free TV licence for over-75s and says the free bus pass and winter fuel payments should only be given to pensioners five years after they reach state pension age.

(contd)

no smugness at the back.

Iambuffy · 28/06/2019 18:07

I'm reminded of the outcry from some americans who voted for trump when they realised that their ACA medical insurance was in fact the hated Obamacare.

Trumps team are clever I'll give them that.

Obamacare = free healthcare for black people and immigrants.

We live in a time of soundbites and catchphrases.

DGRossetti · 28/06/2019 19:00

Pound falling ? Ship in more tourists ...

www.theregister.co.uk/2019/06/28/uk_gov_pledges_probe_into_tourist_motivations/

Yep-she's-still-the-UK-Prime-Minister Theresa May took time off from packing today to launch a strategy to increase tourist visitors to the fair islands.

No, this isn't a reboot of the the New York Times' "Brexit means Brexit" disaster tourism-style package holiday at $6,500 a pop.

May's cunning plan is to increase annual visitors from 38 million a year by an extra nine million by 2025 through other means. (We'll definitely have Brexit sorted by then, anyway...)

www.gov.uk/government/publications/tourism-sector-deal/tourism-sector-deal

(contd)

LonelyTiredandLow · 28/06/2019 19:07

On R2 this moorning they were singing the praises of the fact more Brits would be "holidaying at home this year, thanks to Brexit uncertainty". I get it, i've also decided to stay here (although I do feel I should have used the 'last summer' to visit 4 or 5 EU cities) but really, celebrating choice restrictions when it is clearly because the majority of us are stressed out beyond belief about the whole thing seems a shrewd if not disingenuous way of slanting those figures.

Iambuffy · 28/06/2019 19:14

We always do a week in the UK but we are planning a couple of EU breaks too before October.

1tisILeClerc · 28/06/2019 19:34

{The EU and South American economic bloc Mercosur have clinched a trade deal following 20 years of negotiations.}

This might possibly be a bit better than those 'Foxy' deals with Iceland.
Shame the UK might not be joining in.

bellinisurge · 28/06/2019 19:35

Ha ha Confused we'll be in Ireland on 31 October. Will be ensuring we take proof of our Irish citizenship while we are there.

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