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Brexit

Westministenders: The start of our fourth year of fun

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 24/06/2019 10:47

Do you remember when politics was boring?

This week we have had a Tory MP recalled, a Tory MP caught on film appearing to assault a protester and our likely Tory prime minister caught on tape having a serious row with his girlfriend which resulted in the police being called.

This is a government with a majority of 3 (with the DUP).

There are apparently 100 MPs who are not on board with no deal, but its not clear how far they will go to try and stop this. We do have Dominic Grieve stating that if Johnson is elected leader he will not become PM as he will not have the confidence of the house and can not go to the Queen to say he has. He has recently said he would resign the Tory Whip if necessary, which he has not previously said. The government has only to lose 2 more MPs for it to lose its majority...

It is important to remember that until Johnson goes to the Queen, May remains PM and retains the powers of the office. Could he become leader but not PM?

This crisis would most likely lead to a GE. The only real question would be over the timing over this. Would it be immediate or strung out over the summer? At this point this does look highly likely before October.

If the Tory moderates get their way, then the ERG hardliners hit back and do the same thing even with the looming threat of the Brexit Party or a Remain surge.

Its hard to see how we AVOID Brenda from Bristol being tracked down for a rent-a-quote. And there is a strong possibility of another Tory Leadership Election before the year is out, under several scenarios.

Meanwhile the EU Brexit Team has largely broken up, with most of its lead players having new personal priorities with internal EU elections. Our biggest ally in Tusk will no longer be there to protect us, so EU politics post 31st October could look quite different, and less favourable, to the UK.

Whilst the talk around parliament from seems to indicate that the UK will look for another extension (and this includes from Camp Johnson), this is very inward looking. At some point there needs to be a wakeup call that the EU want us out, and will be prepared to force us to no deal whether we like it or not.

Equally the idea that we could have a PV is also dependant now on EU good will, as we've faffed about for so long with Tory Brats. And relies on the EU still being keen on another referendum. Will this come to a head with the EU saying no and shattering the hopes of the other side of the house?

At this point, what happens with the Withdrawal Agreement? The idea that the withdrawal agreement is dead isn't quite as clear cut as you might think. If its a choice in parliament on the very last day of No Deal v the Withdrawal Agreement what will they do? Will they recognise the moment? Certainly I think there are a few opposition MPs who HAVE started to notice this is a possibility this time around. Its still largely unspoken though. No one wants to acknowledge political reality.

We still haven't hit the wall of reality. We avoided in March. But its still there and no going away.

I think there are two things we can count on over the next few weeks; more outrage and chaos and a slow dawning of the realisation that May was dreadful, but it really could be worse.

OP posts:
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BestIsWest · 25/06/2019 21:36

From Jess Phillips

This is phenomenal, I just watch Netflix boxsets, dancing with my mates and hanging out with the kids. I feel so dull now, I'm off to turn a wine crate in to a perfect model of a bulldozer at Heathrow.

BigChocFrenzy · 25/06/2019 21:42

I wonder if team BJ knows who is supposed to be doing what: Hmm

Sam Coates Skyy@SamCoatesSky*

So Boris Johnson campaign team switch

Iain Duncan Smith is “chairman”, James Wharton is “campaign manager”

So Wharton still there, even though the briefing is that IDS is doing for the membership stage what Wharton did for the MP stage

But who has the final say?

1tisILeClerc · 25/06/2019 21:48

From the Independent:
{At such a crucial time in the country's history, you'd be forgiven for thinking MPs might decide to curtail their usual summer break.

Apparently not. As the government spends weeks trying to decide who should fill Britain's current leadership void and the Brexit deadline looms ever closer, parliament on Monday voted 223 to 25 to take summer recess from 25 July to 3 September.}

I'm glad they are taking the disaster that is Brexit seriously.

BigChocFrenzy · 25/06/2019 21:50

Then 2-3 weeks after they return, there is the party conference recess,
which runs through the last week of September and the first week of October

So after the Tory conference acclaims the new leader,
he / she only has 2 weeks to decide on a request for extension,
because the EU heads of govt would debate this at the 17-18 October EUCO

BigChocFrenzy · 25/06/2019 21:52

oops, don't know why I put a he / she

  • the new PM will have a willy
Motheroffourdragons · 25/06/2019 21:54

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

GeistohneGrenzen · 25/06/2019 22:04

Motheroffourdragons

Who does he think he's kidding?

wheresmymojo · 25/06/2019 22:05

Tangent for this evening...

I've only just realised that the Nazi party were actually a far-left party and not a far-right party.

Why are they called a far-right party when they were socialists and came from the worker's party?

Because of the nationalism aspect?

jasjas1973 · 25/06/2019 22:18

They weren't.

They were props, the Social Democrats (and other left leaning people) were rounded up and sent to concentration camps.

Farage uses the same tactics, whilst hiding his true aims.

wheresmymojo · 25/06/2019 22:21

Yes, I just read up on Snopes which has an excellent piece on it. They kept the name but that was it...

www.snopes.com/news/2017/09/05/were-nazis-socialists/

wheresmymojo · 25/06/2019 22:31

Latest from the Tory Board is that all one nation/progressive Tories are 'Yellow Tories' with a 'Left Wing Liberal' agenda...and that they all joined with Cameron who is also a LWL and was 'aping the air of Blair' as a route to electoral success.

They want to rid the party of these LWL's after Brexit. According to them there are only 100 of the current crop of MPs they consider 'true' Conservatives.

Like I said....they make Theresa May look pretty good.

I don't know if I'm just engaging with a couple of loonies though, I'm going to pose the hypothesis to the members group and see if it's accepted as a general consensus.

lljkk · 25/06/2019 22:33

I'm beginning to wonder if BJ is seriously deranged. I know he's quite deluded.

Mistigri · 25/06/2019 22:35

I've only just realised that the Nazi party were actually a far-left party and not a far-right party.

Is this a serious comment? This is straight out of the alt-right playbook.

Many far-right parties, like the National Front in France, Lega in Italy and PIS in Poland, are big state parties. In fact it's the main difference these days between mainstream hard right parties like the Tories and the Republicans in France and the USA: mainstream right parties tend to be small-state advocates (at least in word, if not in deed) while far right parties are often enthusiastic big-state authoritarians.

bellinisurge · 25/06/2019 22:43

"I've only just realised that the Nazi party were actually a far-left party and not a far-right party."

I respectfully call bullshit on that one. Being called National Socialist was just a way of appealing to extremists on the left. Or to the middle ground who were too scared of the Soviet Union but could "see the point ". Political bastards being all things to all people. Sound familiar?

colouringinpro · 25/06/2019 22:53

pmk

Icantreachthepretzels · 25/06/2019 22:56

They want to rid the party of these LWL's after Brexit. According to them there are only 100 of the current crop of MPs they consider 'true' Conservatives.

Are they aware that they cannot have a majority in parliament with only 100 MPs? If they purge the centre right tories ... they destroy the tories.

I have no problem with that - but it's an odd thing for the tory membership to want.

prettybird · 25/06/2019 23:15

With a non choice between 2 unicorn-BeLeavers to be the next PM, I have re-started my stockpiling Sad

.....although I've just had the 2nd of my 2 frozen legs of lamb (from Easter) as my dad is off to SA tomorrow and we had an early celebratory meal for dh's 60th birthday at the weekend and dh treated us to a bottle of 1992 Grange from his previous collection Wine (Do wine collections count as stockpiling? Wink)

BigChocFrenzy · 25/06/2019 23:15

Gove turning on Banks, social liberalism showing again

Michael Gove@michaelgove

Dear @Arron_banks

  • a brave woman (with whom I disagree on much) speaks from the heart and speaks up for love, compassion and understanding and against prejudice and hate - and you reply like this... please reflect and apologise ..... Banks had tweeted "get a grip" after this:  Sky News@SkyNews

Labour MP @angelaeagle makes an tearful plea to MPs to take action over LGBT teaching protests in Birmingham.

Peregrina · 25/06/2019 23:31

Why are they called a far-right party when they were socialists and came from the worker's party?

Think about who the Leading Nazis were. Excepting Hitler who wasn't well educated think of Dr Goebbels, Himmler, Hess - all University educated men. Heydrich was a Naval Officer. Ask yourself if they were 'Workers".

This always worries me when people talk about education being the answer - the Germans were a cultured, educated nation and yet they succumbed to barbarism.

HesterThrale · 25/06/2019 23:33

More on photogate...piercing interview from Emma Barnett on Newsnight trying to pin Andrew Mitchell down on why Boris refused to answer Nick Ferrari 26 times about when that photo was taken.

mobile.twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1143638273849303042

That photo... some of you botany experts will put me right here, but doesn’t grass look like this later in the season? Like gone to seed? Late summer? Could be wrong, but just saying...

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/25/boris-johnson-team-photo-partner-carrie-symonds

Peregrina · 25/06/2019 23:45

I assume the Pub where it was taken knows when he was last there. They could put out a statement saying that they hadn't seen Boris Johnson recently.

Mind you, with the rain we have had recently, parts of my garden now look like that.

wheresmymojo · 25/06/2019 23:46

Has anyone seen this thread of the impact of no deal on NI / RoI fish imports/exports?

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1143239903557431305.html

Oakenbeach · 25/06/2019 23:51

Think about who the Leading Nazis were. Excepting Hitler who wasn't well educated think of Dr Goebbels, Himmler, Hess - all University educated men. Heydrich was a Naval Officer. Ask yourself if they were 'Workers".

By the same token, Lenin and Trotsky were hardly “workers” either!

Peregrina · 26/06/2019 00:06

By the same token, Lenin and Trotsky were hardly “workers” either!

No, but I don't think anyone thought that they were anything other than left wing.

I too had wondered about the Socialist bit of the Nazis, and assumed that they couldn't be, judging by their behaviour. There does seem to be an overlap between extreme left and right - both seem to be very authoritarian, both seem to end up with elites that feather their own nests.

tobee · 26/06/2019 00:08

pretzels presumably the True Tories are aiming to deselect all the "liberal" MPs and put "right thinkers" in their place. Much like Momentum are doing with Labour MPs who don't believe that Corbyn is the second coming.