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Brexit

Westministenders: The start of our fourth year of fun

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 24/06/2019 10:47

Do you remember when politics was boring?

This week we have had a Tory MP recalled, a Tory MP caught on film appearing to assault a protester and our likely Tory prime minister caught on tape having a serious row with his girlfriend which resulted in the police being called.

This is a government with a majority of 3 (with the DUP).

There are apparently 100 MPs who are not on board with no deal, but its not clear how far they will go to try and stop this. We do have Dominic Grieve stating that if Johnson is elected leader he will not become PM as he will not have the confidence of the house and can not go to the Queen to say he has. He has recently said he would resign the Tory Whip if necessary, which he has not previously said. The government has only to lose 2 more MPs for it to lose its majority...

It is important to remember that until Johnson goes to the Queen, May remains PM and retains the powers of the office. Could he become leader but not PM?

This crisis would most likely lead to a GE. The only real question would be over the timing over this. Would it be immediate or strung out over the summer? At this point this does look highly likely before October.

If the Tory moderates get their way, then the ERG hardliners hit back and do the same thing even with the looming threat of the Brexit Party or a Remain surge.

Its hard to see how we AVOID Brenda from Bristol being tracked down for a rent-a-quote. And there is a strong possibility of another Tory Leadership Election before the year is out, under several scenarios.

Meanwhile the EU Brexit Team has largely broken up, with most of its lead players having new personal priorities with internal EU elections. Our biggest ally in Tusk will no longer be there to protect us, so EU politics post 31st October could look quite different, and less favourable, to the UK.

Whilst the talk around parliament from seems to indicate that the UK will look for another extension (and this includes from Camp Johnson), this is very inward looking. At some point there needs to be a wakeup call that the EU want us out, and will be prepared to force us to no deal whether we like it or not.

Equally the idea that we could have a PV is also dependant now on EU good will, as we've faffed about for so long with Tory Brats. And relies on the EU still being keen on another referendum. Will this come to a head with the EU saying no and shattering the hopes of the other side of the house?

At this point, what happens with the Withdrawal Agreement? The idea that the withdrawal agreement is dead isn't quite as clear cut as you might think. If its a choice in parliament on the very last day of No Deal v the Withdrawal Agreement what will they do? Will they recognise the moment? Certainly I think there are a few opposition MPs who HAVE started to notice this is a possibility this time around. Its still largely unspoken though. No one wants to acknowledge political reality.

We still haven't hit the wall of reality. We avoided in March. But its still there and no going away.

I think there are two things we can count on over the next few weeks; more outrage and chaos and a slow dawning of the realisation that May was dreadful, but it really could be worse.

OP posts:
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15
lljkk · 25/06/2019 18:44

Hunt's vision of Brexit. Not quite as charismatic.

Westministenders: The start of our fourth year of fun
Oakenbeach · 25/06/2019 18:44

You'd think, but John Redwood in a huge Remain constituency got back in again comfortably. Despite being a nasty piece of work. It's tribal - blue rosette, vote.

But things have moved on massively from 2017... Most people, including most people who voted Remain, voted for parties who campaigned on a manifesto to leave the EU, myself included.

ThereWillBeAdequateFood · 25/06/2019 18:56

But things have moved on massively from 2017

Are attitudes starting to change? I think remainers are getting more and more pissed off.

I think Johnson’s complete inability to articulate a plan for Brexit is rattling some leavers. I’m being optimistic aren’t I?

1tisILeClerc · 25/06/2019 19:19
small musical interlude.
Motheroffourdragons · 25/06/2019 19:19

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

Motheroffourdragons · 25/06/2019 19:24

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

Peregrina · 25/06/2019 19:29

The one time constituent countries of the United Kingdom could still keep the Queen/King as Head of State. Personally I can't see the Irish wanting to. The Scots and Welsh - perhaps.

Icantreachthepretzels · 25/06/2019 19:49

OK when even Diane Abbott is telling you you're getting it wrong, then it's time to listen Jezza. Your closest allies no longer agree with you.

tobee · 25/06/2019 19:54

Not holding my breath pretzels.

Do you think the members who voted in Corbyn as leader are happy with their work?

Whisky2014 · 25/06/2019 20:05

. I also think I remember reading most of our chickens are reared here then sent back to mainland EU for "processing" before coming back to supermarkets to sell in UK.

Not sure about England but the 2 sister food group in dunfermline process chickens which supply all of Scotland. They are all sourced from Scottish farms too so the shipping to EU for processing isn't correct in Scotland anyway. I doubt they'd do it in England either since chicken is so cheap.

Whisky2014 · 25/06/2019 20:05

Sorry not dunfermline, coupar angus!

BigChocFrenzy · 25/06/2019 20:20

BJ’s Eton housemaster, Martin Hammond, in 1982 school report:

“I think he honestly believes it is churlish of us not to regard him as an exception,
one who should be free of the network of obligation which binds everyone else.”

PostNotInHaste · 25/06/2019 20:42

Hard to keep up again. Our Conservative MP preparing for an election allegedly. And I heard Boris and his bus modelling bit.

How pissed off do you think my cousin would be if I teach her 4 year old Granddaughter (she’s German) a new English verse to the wheels on the bus when I visit soon ? We had great fun making up verses last trip and I feel I could amuse myself quite nicely over this- it would be good for her English vocabulary wouldn’t it?!

DGRossetti · 25/06/2019 20:45

The one time constituent countries of the United Kingdom could still keep the Queen/King as Head of State. Personally I can't see the Irish wanting to.

Surely, NI uniting with Ireland precludes them having a Monarch ?

BigChocFrenzy · 25/06/2019 20:50

More BJ ranting & raving today:

Under WTO rules, if the UK Brexits with No Deal, then the EU is required to apply tariffs on UK imports,
the same as it does for imports from any other country with which it does not have a deal.

BJ is claiming this would be like returning to Napoleon’s trade embargo

imo, he decides on a piece of historical knowledge or poem he wants to show off about, to show his adoring public that he had a posh education,
then squeezes it into whatever he is talking about,

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-johnson/uks-johnson-warns-eu-against-any-napoleonic-tariffs-in-no-deal-brexit-idUSKCN1TP2SR

“I think it would be very bizarre if the EU should decide on their own...
if they decided to impose tariffs on goods coming from the UK it would be...
a return to Napoleon’s continental system,”
Johnson told LBC radio

BigChocFrenzy · 25/06/2019 20:52

During the last Indie Ref, iirc the SNP said the Queen would remain head of state of an independent Scotland

No problem sharing her, as some Commonwealth countries still choose to have her as their head of state

DGRossetti · 25/06/2019 20:52

Weren't Britain and France at war under Napoleon ? Hardly a sensible parallel ?

Oakenbeach · 25/06/2019 20:53

The one time constituent countries of the United Kingdom could still keep the Queen/King as Head of State. Personally I can't see the Irish wanting to.

I don’t see why Scottish independence would necessarily have any bearing on the Queen’s position. She’s a Queen of Canada, Australia and many other independent countries.... and arguably she’s more of a Scottish monarch than an English monarch given that it was James VI of Scotland who extended his realm to the English throne back in 1603 upon the death of Elizabeth I.

BigChocFrenzy · 25/06/2019 21:04

Hunt playing silly buggers too, using his office as Foreign Secretary to play party politics

No FCO / consular support for First Minister NS in Brussels.

However, on Arlene's recent US trip, I'm damn sure she mentioned Brexit, keeping the Union, opposing the backstop - and she received full FCO backup.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/25/jeremy-hunt-pulls-foreign-office-support-nicola-sturgeon

Jeremy Hunt has been accused of trying to boost his Conservative leadership campaign by
withdrawing Foreign Office (FCO) support for Nicola Sturgeon’s overseas visits.

The foreign secretary has confirmed that he has ordered his department not to provide any official or consular support for Sturgeon’s trips abroad if she uses them to campaign for Scottish independence.

The row first erupted when the FCO refused to support Sturgeon’s trip to Brussels
to meet Jean-Claude Juncker, the European commission president, and Michel Barnier, the EU’s chief Brexit negotiator, two weeks ago.

Ellie56 · 25/06/2019 21:12

More BJ ranting & raving today

Even Liam Fox has said there will be tariffs if we have no deal.Johnson is a complete tit living in la la land. He doesn't have the first clue about Brexit and what it entails, and is totally unfit for high office.

thethethethethe · 25/06/2019 21:23

I think he does know.

wheresmymojo · 25/06/2019 21:26

I think Johnson’s complete inability to articulate a plan for Brexit is rattling some leavers. I’m being optimistic aren’t I?

Yes, all the (many) Leavers I'm now in debate with on the Tory forums are back to fully Beleaving because Boris is their one true saviour and he's going to get them out on 31/10 come what may

wheresmymojo · 25/06/2019 21:27

I also think he knows. Johnson is many, many things. Stupid is not one of them.

1tisILeClerc · 25/06/2019 21:31

From the Guardian:
{The German envoy’s comments came as motor industry leaders warned that the cost of car manufacturing would go up £70m a day if the UK leaves the EU without a deal, making the British automotive industry more vulnerable to closures,.

They also warned for the second time this year that car prices will go up by an average of £1,500.}

Delays are estimated at £50,000 per minute.

BestIsWest · 25/06/2019 21:31

IiRC Mark Drakeford also had FCO support withdrawn when he went to meet Barnier.

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