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Brexit

Westministenders: The start of our fourth year of fun

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 24/06/2019 10:47

Do you remember when politics was boring?

This week we have had a Tory MP recalled, a Tory MP caught on film appearing to assault a protester and our likely Tory prime minister caught on tape having a serious row with his girlfriend which resulted in the police being called.

This is a government with a majority of 3 (with the DUP).

There are apparently 100 MPs who are not on board with no deal, but its not clear how far they will go to try and stop this. We do have Dominic Grieve stating that if Johnson is elected leader he will not become PM as he will not have the confidence of the house and can not go to the Queen to say he has. He has recently said he would resign the Tory Whip if necessary, which he has not previously said. The government has only to lose 2 more MPs for it to lose its majority...

It is important to remember that until Johnson goes to the Queen, May remains PM and retains the powers of the office. Could he become leader but not PM?

This crisis would most likely lead to a GE. The only real question would be over the timing over this. Would it be immediate or strung out over the summer? At this point this does look highly likely before October.

If the Tory moderates get their way, then the ERG hardliners hit back and do the same thing even with the looming threat of the Brexit Party or a Remain surge.

Its hard to see how we AVOID Brenda from Bristol being tracked down for a rent-a-quote. And there is a strong possibility of another Tory Leadership Election before the year is out, under several scenarios.

Meanwhile the EU Brexit Team has largely broken up, with most of its lead players having new personal priorities with internal EU elections. Our biggest ally in Tusk will no longer be there to protect us, so EU politics post 31st October could look quite different, and less favourable, to the UK.

Whilst the talk around parliament from seems to indicate that the UK will look for another extension (and this includes from Camp Johnson), this is very inward looking. At some point there needs to be a wakeup call that the EU want us out, and will be prepared to force us to no deal whether we like it or not.

Equally the idea that we could have a PV is also dependant now on EU good will, as we've faffed about for so long with Tory Brats. And relies on the EU still being keen on another referendum. Will this come to a head with the EU saying no and shattering the hopes of the other side of the house?

At this point, what happens with the Withdrawal Agreement? The idea that the withdrawal agreement is dead isn't quite as clear cut as you might think. If its a choice in parliament on the very last day of No Deal v the Withdrawal Agreement what will they do? Will they recognise the moment? Certainly I think there are a few opposition MPs who HAVE started to notice this is a possibility this time around. Its still largely unspoken though. No one wants to acknowledge political reality.

We still haven't hit the wall of reality. We avoided in March. But its still there and no going away.

I think there are two things we can count on over the next few weeks; more outrage and chaos and a slow dawning of the realisation that May was dreadful, but it really could be worse.

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usuallydormant · 25/06/2019 13:52

I think the cover of the Alternative Arrangements report is particularly telling. They slapped the title over most of NI, showing just how important it is to their overall objectives. I know we shouldn't judge a book by its cover, but they are making it so difficult...

Westministenders: The start of our fourth year of fun
prettybird · 25/06/2019 13:57

Not going to waste my time reading the flights of fancy of the "Alternative Arrangements Commission" but for those that took one for the team have, does it even address the issue of Non Tariff Barriers, which are arguably even more intractable than tariffs (and were/remain the driving force behind the Single Market)?

How, for example, will technology monitor cows moving from NI into Ireland and back again? Confused Many of the farms have land that straddles the border Hmm

1tisILeClerc · 25/06/2019 13:59

usuallydormant
Indeed, since the subject matter is the border on the island, having it obscured seems distinctly odd.

usuallydormant · 25/06/2019 14:01

They still haven't figured out where it is LeClerc. And Donegal is really confusing them.

1tisILeClerc · 25/06/2019 14:05

prettybird
Sorry, I got about half way through before giving up as there are fewer holes in Swiss cheese. If it were not the Irish border, much of it looks 'viable' but not in any practical timescale or with the political pressures. No doubt much of it does or would work on say Swedish/Norwegian border but the tensions are not the same and the scale and range of goods needing to travel over it are different.

1tisILeClerc · 25/06/2019 14:09

usuallydormant
My mentioning the 'guest list' makes me suspicious as there are a number on the list who would not agree to some of the elements proposed, so not sure how it got 'published'.

BigChocFrenzy · 25/06/2019 14:09

This is all academic anyway

as there is NO chance the EU will agree to drop the backstop in advance,
just for the promise of a theoretical - and debunked - system pushed by a group of Tory Brexiters

The only options are still WA / Revoke / No Deal

bellinisurge · 25/06/2019 14:12

That Javid quote @Clavinova , if he has some magic solution that bears actual scrutiny rather than Javid scrutiny, why hasn't it been taken up? Could it possibly be because it doesn't bear actual scrutiny?
If you are falling for the myth that this is some Irish/EU conspiracy to destroy Brexit you really need to check your critical thinking.

BigChocFrenzy · 25/06/2019 14:12

leclerc For me, requiring what is basically an Irexit - accepting the British version of EU standards - renders it a non-starter
as well as the fact that it would actually still require some checks in NI,
depending on how UK trade deals go with the US etc

BigChocFrenzy · 25/06/2019 14:14

Rich / poor health gap: The effects of austerity on death rates working their way through ?

Steady improvements until 2014, but getting worse since then
One of many problems worsening, while Brexit puts everything else on hold

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/24/britain-life-expectancy-health-gap-rich-poor-tory-leadership

In the most deprived areas of England, babies were more than twice as likely to die within the first year of life (5.2 deaths per 1,000 live births)
than those in the least deprived areas (2.7 deaths per 1,000 live births).

Equally concerning, the UK now lags well behind many other European countries
......
Alarmingly, when declines such as this have occurred elsewhere,
for example in the Soviet Union in the 1980s,
it has been an early marker of severe problems in society.
......
life expectancy at older ages has actually been worsening, again an extremely unusual situation
.....
More young people are dying, more babies are dying, and we can expect to live shorter lives.
< if we aren't posh mc / uc >

1tisILeClerc · 25/06/2019 14:23

BCF
Yes I know it's a non starter but it is more polite to at least look at it rather than tell the leaver fantasists to '&& off'.
As I think you might have agreed in the past, and R North has said, and I can also see that Brexit IS possible, given a 10 year timeframe with a lot of goodwill and carefully considered work.
The main problem being that the UK government has deliberately gone about the process by being as unpleasant and disrespectful as possible to everybody and suggesting that it can happen 'overnight'.
The UK got into the EU with incrementally deeper integration with all countries over a 40+ year period.

1tisILeClerc · 25/06/2019 14:26

{suggesting that it can happen 'overnight'.}
Before the 'whiners' point out that the UK hasn't actually said that in words of less than one syllable, they have never actually been truthful and said it is a 10 year project.

lonelyplanetmum · 25/06/2019 15:13

My 12 year old told me her solution to Brexit last night - we change the National Anthem to the Emperor's March from Star Wars. Everyone would be so distracted/excited try this that it would bring everyone together.

Love this Bellini - it has as much (if not more) chance of building consensus as anything else tried so far.

RedToothBrush · 25/06/2019 15:21

Johnson's campaign manager to be announced as IDS.

Yes really.

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LouiseCollins28 · 25/06/2019 15:21

hehe Grin If are minded to, you can even sort of scan the "God Save the Queen" words into the Imperial March tune (try it!) Grin Definite yes to this from me!

RedToothBrush · 25/06/2019 15:27

Oh in other bonkers news from the campaign trail we learn that Johnson makes models of buses to relax....

... This is pure Bannon/Trump. Cos whilst we are all talking about the buses, we aren't talking about policy or asking why we aren't talking policy.

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BigChocFrenzy · 25/06/2019 15:31

Really, is that the best BJ can do for campaign manager ?

When the answer is IDS, you need to rethink the question
I've a horrible suspicion that means IDS returning to Cabinet

And even more pathetic, "the War of BJ's Ear" (apologies to historians)

Tom Newton Dunnn@tnewtondunn*

Excl: Bitter split opens up inside Boris’s leadership campaign between 'old guard' friends and new recruits over who has his ear and Cabinet jobs

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/9357935/boris-leadership-campaign-hit-old-guard-new-recruits/

A feud has also erupted over Cabinet jobs, as a series of his senior MP supporters vie for top posts.

DGRossetti · 25/06/2019 15:33

If are minded to, you can even sort of scan the "God Save the Queen" words into the Imperial March tune (try it!) Grin Definite yes to this from me!

God save the Queen;
the fascist regime ...

(goes off for a pogo ...)

prettybird · 25/06/2019 15:35

For those that know Scottish politics, they'll be delighted to be told that Ross Thomson is BJ's Campaign Manager for Scotland Wink

Ds called it a week ago: that Ross Thomson would be the next SoS for Scotland. He's really disappointed that his new flat in Aberdeen is still in Aberdeen North, so he can't vote against Thomson (in Aberdeen South) in the GE to come sooner rather than later

BigChocFrenzy · 25/06/2019 15:36

Old QEII is actually the only one atm doing her bloody job.
In her 90s

I'd change the bits of the system that are not working

DGRossetti · 25/06/2019 15:37

A feud has also erupted over Cabinet jobs, as a series of his senior MP supporters vie for top posts.

It all feels terribly Last Days of The Reich, doesn't it ? Sad with the part of the Red Army being played by the extension till October 31st.

Songsofexperience · 25/06/2019 15:39

I agree abolishing the monarchy right now would only add to the chaos.

BigChocFrenzy · 25/06/2019 15:41

I don't even understnd wwwhat he's saying about the bus / crate hobby

red Do they really think it's a useful distraction to hsve people wondering why he's so incoherent ? Hmm
Rather like people wondering about Trump and dementia; one must wonder if he's stoned or just incapable

Tom Newton Dunn@tnewtondunn

What do you do to switch off?

Boris: “I like to paint. I make things. I make models.
I make models of buses.

I don’t mean buses, I get old wooden crates and I paint them.

And I paint the passengers enjoying themselves, on the low carbon bus.
You really want to know this?”

WTF?

Songsofexperience · 25/06/2019 15:45

He missed one: his love of printing lies on buses.

LouiseCollins28 · 25/06/2019 15:47

I am beginning to wonder whether Boris Johnson is actively trying to lose the Conservative leadership contest.

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