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Brexit

Westministenders: The start of our fourth year of fun

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 24/06/2019 10:47

Do you remember when politics was boring?

This week we have had a Tory MP recalled, a Tory MP caught on film appearing to assault a protester and our likely Tory prime minister caught on tape having a serious row with his girlfriend which resulted in the police being called.

This is a government with a majority of 3 (with the DUP).

There are apparently 100 MPs who are not on board with no deal, but its not clear how far they will go to try and stop this. We do have Dominic Grieve stating that if Johnson is elected leader he will not become PM as he will not have the confidence of the house and can not go to the Queen to say he has. He has recently said he would resign the Tory Whip if necessary, which he has not previously said. The government has only to lose 2 more MPs for it to lose its majority...

It is important to remember that until Johnson goes to the Queen, May remains PM and retains the powers of the office. Could he become leader but not PM?

This crisis would most likely lead to a GE. The only real question would be over the timing over this. Would it be immediate or strung out over the summer? At this point this does look highly likely before October.

If the Tory moderates get their way, then the ERG hardliners hit back and do the same thing even with the looming threat of the Brexit Party or a Remain surge.

Its hard to see how we AVOID Brenda from Bristol being tracked down for a rent-a-quote. And there is a strong possibility of another Tory Leadership Election before the year is out, under several scenarios.

Meanwhile the EU Brexit Team has largely broken up, with most of its lead players having new personal priorities with internal EU elections. Our biggest ally in Tusk will no longer be there to protect us, so EU politics post 31st October could look quite different, and less favourable, to the UK.

Whilst the talk around parliament from seems to indicate that the UK will look for another extension (and this includes from Camp Johnson), this is very inward looking. At some point there needs to be a wakeup call that the EU want us out, and will be prepared to force us to no deal whether we like it or not.

Equally the idea that we could have a PV is also dependant now on EU good will, as we've faffed about for so long with Tory Brats. And relies on the EU still being keen on another referendum. Will this come to a head with the EU saying no and shattering the hopes of the other side of the house?

At this point, what happens with the Withdrawal Agreement? The idea that the withdrawal agreement is dead isn't quite as clear cut as you might think. If its a choice in parliament on the very last day of No Deal v the Withdrawal Agreement what will they do? Will they recognise the moment? Certainly I think there are a few opposition MPs who HAVE started to notice this is a possibility this time around. Its still largely unspoken though. No one wants to acknowledge political reality.

We still haven't hit the wall of reality. We avoided in March. But its still there and no going away.

I think there are two things we can count on over the next few weeks; more outrage and chaos and a slow dawning of the realisation that May was dreadful, but it really could be worse.

OP posts:
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BigChocFrenzy · 24/06/2019 21:21

she & Liddington fairly openly supported Rory and frowned hard on BJ
They might be the 2 who abstained ! Grin

woman19 · 24/06/2019 21:23

Grin DGR
By culture, I mean a welcoming, sometimes daft, but well meaning internationalist humane culture 1tisILeClerc : What britain had often aimed to be, not always successfully, but sometimes it worked. Smile That appears to have been disappeared, including by legal decree, since the 'brexit' 1st

The WA seeks to maintain citizens rights at least as far as is possible

By rights, I mean Human Rights and Freedom of Movement. And right to be an EU citizen. All removed from us.

EU citizens in Britain can't even access their right to vote or rights to stay in their own homes.

Citizens of the North of Ireland are being denied their right to ROI citizenship, under the Brexit.

The list is endless.

Peregrina · 24/06/2019 21:28

It's not so much the WA which has destroyed our rights and culture - it's May's interpretation of what Leave meant.

If, as many of us have commented already, she'd had the guts to say, 'the vote was close, we will explore the options,' and not triggered A50 until the realistic options were known, then we might not be in this pretty pass now.

Peregrina · 24/06/2019 21:28

And she might have been PM for longer!

BigChocFrenzy · 24/06/2019 21:33

Citizens rights are the greatest failing in the WA, imo

However, about the only change the EU would allow to the WA is to add back all these rights

  • they wanted expats to keep all EU rights anyway, so they'd leap at the chance

It was May / the UK govt who insisted on reducing them

1tisILeClerc · 24/06/2019 21:33

woman19
No issue, I just didn't understand which aspects you were thinking of.

BigChocFrenzy · 24/06/2019 21:34

All Uk citizens could have FOM, if the Uk would only reciprocate

However, EU citizenship would, by definition of Brexit, be lost Sad

woman19 · 24/06/2019 21:39

Sure 1stClerk no worries. Smile
And she might have been PM for longer
She may be PM for a wee while yet.........
Here's another one.

Westministenders: The start of our fourth year of fun
thethethethethe · 24/06/2019 21:45

.

BigChocFrenzy · 24/06/2019 22:04

Yep, BJ will have to win a "motion of confidence" to become PM

Until he can, including if that means until after winning a GE, May remains the PM

He will face an NC vote from Corbyn, when he goes to the HoC shortly after becoming leader (if he does) on 22 July
2 Tories may vote against him, which might be enough to prevent him becoming PM
BUT
It is possible a couple of Lexiters, e.g. Hoey, might vote for him

Some Lexiters at least seem to want him to become PM

  • am I right that you do, howabout, as you seemed to be defending him earlier ?
Or would you support JC in his wish for a GE ? The Tories might not cooperate to get the ⅔ majority required, though.
Mummyoflittledragon · 24/06/2019 22:06

Loving the IKEA wankur comment. This thread is so scary I almost wish I hadn’t come across it. Sad

Peregrina · 24/06/2019 22:16

Why will BJ have to win a Motion of Confidence? Theresa May didn't. Is it because it's a hung Parliament, or because the assumption is that a vote of Confidence will be called?

Sarahlou63 · 24/06/2019 22:19

Having just watched the BBC interview with Johnson I fervently hope he wins.

And loses a NC vote the following day.

BigChocFrenzy · 24/06/2019 22:21

This refers to an NC when No Deal is looming, so presumably October, not July

Important though that this raises the number of Tory MPs to at least 4,
who would bring the govt down if they try to No Deal

Clarke seems to be hinting in that case that he could support another govt that would resolve this mess without a GE first

  • maybe Labour, with confidence & supply from LDems, Tory rebels, SNP, Plaid, some independents

Jason Groves@JasonGroves1

Ken Clarke tells ^ @BBCWorldatOne^ that he would be prepared to vote against the govt in confidence motion to prevent no deal.

'It might trigger an election, it might trigger a change of govt without an election...'

Peregrina · 24/06/2019 22:22

And loses a NC vote the following day.

That would be very gratifying. Would that mean that he was the Leader of the Tory party, but May was still the PM? It would be her way of getting back at the ERG bastards who didn't support her.

HesterThrale · 24/06/2019 22:25

It’s not 100% certain he’ll win the leadership. He’s getting criticism. DH tells me his interview with Laura K on the news wasn’t great.
He’s being handed this on a plate. Could it be that he mucks it up?

Hello mummyoflittledragon and any lurkers!

FiveAcorns · 24/06/2019 22:26

PMK

prettybird · 24/06/2019 22:30

Just listened to BJ's "exclusive" interview with Laura K on the BBC (aka still avoiding any direct interaction with Hunt Hmm): apart from the fact that BJ can choose to use longer words (often unnecessarily, so it's just to show off Hmm), he sounded just like Trump. The same bluster, the same vagueness, the same overblown promises and the same lies false facts Angry

Motheroffourdragons · 24/06/2019 22:32

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

BigChocFrenzy · 24/06/2019 22:33

peregrina Yes, when a party has a working majority and just swaps leader, then normally it is assumed they can command a majority as PM
So the Opposition probably wouldn't bother with an NC

In this hung Parliament, the Tories have a majority of 3 even if the DUP support him - and it's possible they may demand a new written agreement
Also, a couple of Tory MPs might vote against their own govt, but might be canceled out by Hoey and a friend

So, JC will certainly call an NC vote and even has a chance to win

If BJ loses the NC vote, he will remain leader of the Tory party in the country, but not PM !
Amazing 😂
This is potentially history being made and unprecedented in the UK afaik
< awaits correction from UK history buffs >

BigChocFrenzy · 24/06/2019 22:35

pretty will hit me if I say NS and the SNP don't count, but it is a very different situation:
she chose to be First Minister, not an MP

jasjas1973 · 24/06/2019 22:35

his interview with Laura K on the news wasn’t great.

Awful, he was just waffling, i was trying to listen to his answers and see if i could understand his reasoning and ideas but he hasn't got any, just more wish lists....
We might as well have the local pub drunk as PM.

Motheroffourdragons · 24/06/2019 22:37

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

BigChocFrenzy · 24/06/2019 22:39

Tory donor worried about BJ's character / behaviour and whether he supports all his kids

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/24/top-tory-party-donor-joins-calls-for-boris-johnson-to-explain-row?

“We need to know if he can be trusted because he will get even more attention from women if he becomes PM.

I would be concerned if he went marauding around, taking advantage of women by using his position.
It would not be right at all,”

Iambuffy · 24/06/2019 22:41

He's never looked great to be fair mother

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