Westminstenders: Brace Yourself It's Gonna BeBoris

[RedToothBrush]

It seems inconceivable that Hunt can beat Johnson. And whilst we are all considering the horrors that Prime Johnson can bring...

Let's not forget Brexit, whats Brexit?

Already there is talk that Boris has gone soft on 31st Oct as an absolute. But he's also promised the earth to the ERG.

So what suits Boris best?

What does his ego demand?

What does Boris want his legacy to be?

Our fate rests on Boris's whims and personal desires.

And if you are Scottish, Muslim or otherwise not rich, white and male you might have reason to be concerned.

What exactly can Labour do ???

They don’t control Parliament or set the agenda.

They along with us are twiddling our thumbs until Tory party select the next prime minister for us.

I have to say for Labour that I don't think they are loosing any more support by doing this (those guys have left already). A friend pointed out to me she still thinks he is the nicest politician in HoC and the reason Tories are so scared is that he shows them up. She also said she believed that sometimes not picking a side is the strongest way forward. From her perspective he is being adult and not getting involved in the crazy. She did say she understood my position that he wasn't being an opposition at all, but said this was his skill; apparently he has never ever done that in all of his political career - he has always kept both arguments on the table . It's her belief which I did counter (she graciously said she could see my points too ) but she didn't see what adding more anger to the situation would positively do. I guess it's similar to the public in that he has no say, has to wait to see what the hell the Tories are doing/if there is a plan and then deal with the aftermath.

That is if he isn't just a Lexiteer waiting for the downfall of society so that he can usher in sweeping social reform under the chaos.

Fucking Corbyn. Useless git.

Whilst I'm not at all happy with the way Labour as a whole have played this, I'm a little less cross with Corbyn . In fact in some ways he has handled things almost note perfectly. Which I imagine is why he terrifies the Tories so much and why they are willing to let it show. If they had even a quarter-competent PM, Corbyn would have been toast by now. It's only their lack of talent that makes Corbyn look like the bastard love child of JFK and Stalin.

All of that said, team Corbyn have done the only thing they can do when the entire media system of a country is against you, and that's keep low enough that the headlines are about them as little as possible. And for that I have to tip my hat and say "Well done, sir". He has at least learned from the lessons of Foot and Kinnock.

Furthermore, he's left himself enough room as a leader to allow for painless movement. Unlike the extreme Brexiteers who have nailed everything to the mast. I have no doubt the papers would try and excoriate him (after they'd looked it up that is) were he to swing behind a PV/Revoke policy. But anyone who has been following closely wouldn't see it as a shock.

There's no point wasting precious energy (especially at his age) in fighting shadows. Which- no matter how pouty, stroppy or flouncy certain posters get is still the case 3 years on. What is "Brexit" ? Until we know, what's the point in fighting. All we know is, it will be something different next week. Or next PM, whichever comes first.

With regard to timing, and Boris' 2021 "suggestion". One thing no one has mentioned (within my earshot at least) is the fact that Trump is now in re-election mode and will be until November 2020. Which means he will prioritise his own re-election chances over anything to do with Brexit. If I were a remainer, I'd seriously dust off any and all connections with the Democrats and see if there's a way to combine and ensure Brexit is seen as a Trump weakness somehow. Especially if he wants to try and play the "I'm a big friend of that Europe" card in his campaigning. Americans generally love thinking they have friends in places they'll never visit.

What I don't understand is why it would be a problem prolific posters would be male? unless you're a very literally minded person and think only women can post in Mumsnet?

I think louise was not unreasonable to believe leading politicians when they promised the UK could Brexit

I do, it was always blatantly obvious that you simply cannot extract the UK out of 43 years of close political and economic cooperation in 2 years.

You don't even have to have known diddly squat about trade, look at how many years went into planning the Olympics or Crossrail?

Now we are soon to have an idiot as PM and its basically down to leave voters believing an untrustworthy philander and a former lying coke addict.

Possessor of xx chromosome and UK dweller btw.

I have a feeling that something (don’t know what) is going to happen that means BJ bows out of the PM race.

With the added twist that it must preclude him from becoming PM at a later date. So something time limited, or contemporary (mind you, it seems there's no crime which actively prevents anyone career in politics.)

Health ?

Tobee I wondered at the relevance of male female posting too?

I happen to like football and never get any grief about being a ‘lady’ on the football forum I post on its an irrelevance. Unless poster the was implying we all need to be told what to think by a man ? Surely not.

Marking place. If you get the politicians you deserve, then the UK must have been very, very bad.

I do love Jim Crace's characterisation of Hunt as a senior member of cabin crew.

PMK

Jasjas complications like that were brushed over in the leave prospectus. If it was properly explained how torturous a process this would be in reality no one would have voted for it. Hence the swivel to ‘no deal’ easier that way just walk away. Ensuing chaos then lands at the EU’s door.

health?

That would be my bet if I had to make one

Part of me hopes Johnson does not get to walk away at least this way he is having to own his shit.

Downside is he could make a real hash of it.....

I was actually trying to understand why Leavers aren't angry or showing much concern that they will be held to account when they haven't ever really had a say in the direction of Brexit.

My thoughts exactly. Why isn't Johnson being held to his pledge for £350 million a week for the NHS? Why be angry with Remainers over this? Mind you, his first admission would have to be that he knew he was lying about this figure. OK then, where's the £280 million for the NHS?

Why aren't these 'easiest deals in history' now pencilled in, waiting for us to Leave and the signature to be applied? These are the sorts of questions we should be seeing Leavers asking.

I think louise was not unreasonable to believe leading politicians when they promised the UK could Brexit

There is a serious question lurking underneath about how far you indulge peoples naivete before you step in and take sharp things away from them ? Especially when they claim they voted for something specifically because they'd lost trust in politicians.

UKIPers: We've been ignored and betrayed by all politicians !
UKIP politician "Vote for me, and that'll change ...."

People have to accept some responsibility for their actions. by all means, vote for a candidate if you like the cut of their jib and eschew close examination of their policies. But don't then try and claim "you couldn't have known" they were a charlatan as they disappear "toot tooting" into the history books leaving you holding your breath for the change they promised.

For every right there is a responsibility. The right to vote is balanced by the responsibility to try and use it wisely and to accept the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune if you clearly don't.

I do, it was always blatantly obvious that you simply cannot extract the UK out of 43 years of close political and economic cooperation in 2 years.

I agree. The Leave campaign is surely the very definition of unreason: irrational, untrue and and unworkable.

If it wasn't for Gina Miller, remain voting MPs, opposition MPs, pesky members of the public---- setting up petitions and going on marches we'd have left the EU the day after the result and got the NHS would be getting the £350 million a week, dontcha know?!

I was actually trying to understand why Leavers aren't angry or showing much concern that they will be held to account when they haven't ever really had a say in the direction of Brexit.

Because the most vocal leavers only ever had one single thing in mind when they voted leave. As long as they think they are getting that, why give a shit about anything else ? On the few occasions a BeLeaver has deigned to grace us with their presence, and engages with various points it will invariably come down to a phrase which suggests that things would be different if it wasn't for all the foreigners around here, or some variant thereof.

That's my personal take on it.

Because the most vocal leavers only ever had one single thing in mind when they voted leave.

Agreed - every Leaver I’m aware of who still thinks we should pursue this at all costs is only doing it because of immigration

Because all those questions mean having to confront the reality of the situation which would mean acknowledging some of ‘project fear’ may have some truth to it.

The reason that survey from Tory party members shows that they are not bothered about union/economy/own party collapsing is that they simply don’t believe it will happen. A Corbyn led Government however they see as a real possibility so that worries them.

So Tory / DUP majority now down to 2, excluding what (if anything) happens to Mark Field.

Two spoilt ballots. Just saying.

What happened to John Major? Just saying.

The simple question I want answered by leavers, is how they envisaged the GFA was adhered to, while having a hard Brexit..,,,what is their solution to the Irish boarder..... no one has been able to answer that very simple, and fundamental question.

PS - technology is not an answer......I am not looking for unicorns....

The bottom line is the referendum proved too attractive to racists to ignore, and whip up a sentiment that the UK was paradise on earth before those pesky foreigners spoiled it. Once that entered the debate it was a race to the bottom. A race Farage would have beaten Usain Bolt in (admittedly an unlikely race in every sense of the word).

These are people who feel their racism is somehow vindicated and justified and are very unhappy at the prospect that they'll have to go back to being unracist again.

There's a lot else going on too, of course, but that's not a bad summation for a few words.

Incidentally, I know there's been a lot of posturing about refusing to support various political parties because of their stance on "trans issues" or whatever they're called this afternoon. But the bottom line is if the politics that Brexit has unleashed are not stopped here, then in 10 years time if you aren't a white male, you'll have less rights than ever before. So choose your battles and your timing.

Lurker here, waves to everyone...

I agree with bearbehind, but don't know how Johnson will scuttle out now. Everyone knows that the loser of this contest is really the winner, and maybe Johnson knows this now too.

Anyway, on the assumption that Johnson gets the nod from the Queen, I have a feeling that he will just go for a NI only backstop and to hell with the DUP. There may be others in HOC who will see the logic of this and will support it. It will also be something different for the EU to ponder.

GFA supported, normal life carries on between ROI and NI.

I wonder.....

complications like that were brushed over in the leave prospectus. If it was properly explained how torturous a process this would be in reality no one would have voted for it. Hence the swivel to ‘no deal’ easier that way just walk away. Ensuing chaos then lands at the EU’s door

I think there is, for some reason, a pathological hatred of anything european in the UK (among a significant minority) these people love the USA but hate the french etc.
Whether the difficulties were pointed out or not, it was always dismissed as project fear in anycase, these people would have voted to leave.

I do believe that the UK's politicians will get the blame for this mess, just as they have so far. I don't know a single leaver who blames the EU, just our incompetence.