Westminstenders: Brace Yourself It's Gonna BeBoris

[RedToothBrush]

It seems inconceivable that Hunt can beat Johnson. And whilst we are all considering the horrors that Prime Johnson can bring...

Let's not forget Brexit, whats Brexit?

Already there is talk that Boris has gone soft on 31st Oct as an absolute. But he's also promised the earth to the ERG.

So what suits Boris best?

What does his ego demand?

What does Boris want his legacy to be?

Our fate rests on Boris's whims and personal desires.

And if you are Scottish, Muslim or otherwise not rich, white and male you might have reason to be concerned.

imo those of us living abroad get a different perspective from media in our host country and our daily social circle

Revoke is thought very unlikely and now often unwelcome,
since the UK is so bitterly divided and Brexiters so hostile

The EU don't want an angry resentful member state that is continually plotting its next A50 invocation
The WA would be preferable to No Deal, but No Deal has now been costed in

Brexit moves an intractable problem to outside the EU, so the EU can then get on with its business

Yeh I don't know why saying it's not helpful. It's true from what the EU are saying, we have to go on that..

Meanwhile the UK has no choice but to cosy up to the US and bang goes the NHS. Which is the only positive thing people voted For in the Referendum.

Do you want to destroy the NHS on the side of the bus would not have won it for Johnson and Leave.

The fact the EU has closed the negotiating team down strongly suggests there will be no movement by the EU.

If we end up with no deal the negotiating team will have to be reconvened.

They just had to find jobs for those people until we make our minds up what the next step is as they couldn’t do nothing until November, possibly later.

But keeping on saying that the WA is the only way forward is not helpful.

Agreed. Unless posters can define plausible means to get it through Parliament on the fourth attempt, as a Deal it is dead.

The EU has been very clear this week it will not open for renegotiation. They are at the end of their patience. But the deal as negotiated has not and will not be passed by Parliament.

That’s it.

The only options on the table now are Revoke or No Deal.

It is true that a No Deal will see the terms within the WA applied, but that is not the same thing at all. That is a No Deal situation with WA conditions imposed.

{If we end up with no deal the negotiating team will have to be reconvened.}
Not necessarily. Obviously there will be legal opinion, but the act of 'no deal' means that all treaties cease to exist, as A50 states, there is no requirement for further negotiation. It is 'job done' and the UK becomes a third country with no ties at all.

leclerc you can’t honestly believe that - no deal is just the beginning - both sides would need to work together to agree a future trading arrangement

TatianaLarina and Bearbehind
With due respect kindly 'sod off' with your goadiness, your persistent wittering about what at this stage is a mere detail totally missed the vast problem that the UK is fucked.

Agreed. Unless posters can define plausible means to get it through Parliament on the fourth attempt, as a Deal it is dead

I'd think the Mps would vote for it because the can is at the end of the road now. They are against No deal and the EU are stating they are against another extension. They won't want revoke so it seems like voting for the WA is the only choice.

leclerc it is not being goady to point out the flaws in your arguments. Some people on here are getting a little arrogant in their opinion and conviction that everything they say is the gospel truth.

Remainers moan when Leavers throw their toys out of the pram in lieu of arguing their point - you are doing exactly the same.

both sides would need to work together to agree a future trading arrangement yes, definitely.

With due respect kindly 'sod off' with your goadiness, your persistent wittering about what at this stage is a mere detail totally missed the vast problem that the UK is fucked

Seriously?

Not even clear what ‘mere detail’ you’re referring to.

Agreed Bearbehind.

The backstop etc being imposed after No Deal would happen eventually,
but imo could take several months until a face-saving formula is found

"both sides would need to work together to agree a future trading arrangemen"

Only after the above has happened

The Uk would then be in a far inferior negotiating position than if it were in transition after the WA
but if that is what the HoC and the public decides, so be it

both sides would have to work together
If the crazies actually want a trade deal with the EU yes but even then the EU have already set out their stall for beginning negotiations after a 'no deal' which means the UK signing up to the core elements of the withdrawal deal - money, rights and backstop - with no guarantee that the equivalent of a 'situation normal' transition period would then be established.

The only circumstance where the WA can be avoided is if the UK decides it does not wish to establish a trade deal with the EU.

Cf europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-19-2951_en.htm
Specifically:
"should a ‘no-deal' scenario occur, the UK would be expected to address three main separation issues as a precondition before the EU would consider embarking on discussions about the future relationship. These are: (1) protecting and upholding the rights of citizens who have used their right to free movement before Brexit, (2) honouring the financial obligations the UK has made as a Member State and (3) preserving the letter and spirit of the Good Friday Agreement and peace on the island of Ireland, as well as the integrity of the internal market.“

leclerc I agree the most likely outcome is that the UK is fucked.
Short, medium and longterm.

Leavers and Remainers are polarised,
preferring a No Deal crash with terms imposed on us later, rather than moving from their entrenched positions

That humiliation - and most becoming poorer after we lose maybe 8% GDP - will only prolong the bitter divide in the UK

We are helpless observers at a car crash

Frankenstein exactly. We still need the MSM to get candidates to explain their position on future trading with EU to this end. Will one of them stop us trading with them by No Dealing and how long for if so.

That is the forward planning I'd like to be able to start.

I know the politicians will say that giving a time limit would weaken our negotiating position but we are past negotiating so we need to be honest about how long they are prepared to cut us out of the market for.

I think we all know there aren't sufficient plans for any long term No Dealing.

What negotiating position?

Seriously?

Which one?

Precisely.

It's frustrating watching them blather on about how they will negotiate when we have been repeatedly told they can't. It feels as though they are door to door salesmen just trying to get a fast buck. (Apologies to any on the thread - I once managed 2 weeks working for Zenith, I know it is a thankless task).

But again I keep returning to the journalists who aren't asking what will happen. You would think it would be a rather important part of the leadership waste of time that we are all having to endure

You'd think so...

We are helpless observers at a car crash

If only... we're bloody passengers too.

Well, given the electorate - in this case the Tory party -

a candidate,who dared suggest we'd have to suck up the EU's terms after No Deal, no cake,
might as well keep their £125k and stand down

If only... we're bloody passengers too.

In the case of ‘no deal’ we will have also forgotten to put our seat belts on too.....