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Brexit

Westministenders: Hustings and Humilation

1000 replies

RedToothBrush · 13/06/2019 22:16

Round 1 has passed.
Boris is winning. But these are the Tories. Surprises might yet happen.

But the chances are the lying buffon is full speed ahead to be the next PM. As long as he manages to keep his mouth shut.

Unfortunately being Prime Minister involves talking. This might prove to be something that bursts the BorisMania rather rapidly.

A GE is still very much on the cards.

And we might face the Constitutional and undemocratic shutting down of parliament to satisfy the Tory Faithless.

Meanwhile the EU couldn't give less shits. They just think we are wasting the time we were granted in good faith.

31st October beckons with No Deal.

OP posts:
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43
howabout · 18/06/2019 16:26

I agree with Stella in principle BUT I don't think MPs are employees - they are not civil servants and they act in their personal capacity to represent their constituents as opposed to being employed by Govt, their Party or their constituency. I would assume that a lot of their day to day constituency admin actually already gets handled by staff and there may be a grey area re campaign financing if additional disbursements were made.

I don't know what the arrangements are for MSPs or MEPs?

howabout · 18/06/2019 16:30

If somebody is "acting" as my elected political representative when I have had no opportunity to play any part in having them elected, then I think that is outrageous.

I wouldn't put it as strongly as this but I do think it is a valid concern.

howabout · 18/06/2019 16:32

Not sure I can face a whole LibDem thread. Anyone care to enlighten me on Ed's shortcomings? Not a fan of Jo so from pov of someone who would never vote LibDem it sounds as if they should go straight for Chuka?

1tisILeClerc · 18/06/2019 16:34

{If somebody is "acting" as my elected political representative when I have had no opportunity to play any part in having them elected, then I think that is outrageous.}

'I'm sorry Mrs Collins, your gynecologist is away for a few weeks but we have a stand in plumber in their absence, I trust you are fine with this'?
A 'stand in' for an MP could be regulated to correctly represent the MP they are covering and would have guidelines about what their duties are. With the advent of mobile phones and appreciating that a dedicated MP is unlikely to 'switch off' from the role totally is unlikely, unless your name is Farage. The rushing around to physically vote in HoC is simply bonkers. The 'stand in' could undertake this arcane activity with the actual MP being covered maybe texting the speaker as 'confirmation'.

A more pressing issue is resolving Brexit however.

LouiseCollins28 · 18/06/2019 16:35

OK @RedToothBrush, you asked, so here's my logic.

To become an MP, one needs to win a popularity contest, that's it.

I could frankly stop there, but out of respect for your question I won't.

MPs are not required to have any qualifications, at all. Many do, and many have been very well remunerated in their professional lives, quite right too.

Honestly, I think we have far too many people among our current crop of parliamentarians who are or have been lawyers, doctors etc. Clearly we do need these people, but we also need many, many less well remunerated individuals to stand, so our Parliament is more representative.

I have no interest whatever in affording an MP a "quality of life" that's a matter for them and their decisions. If they make decisions that will enable everyone to have a good quality of life, then they shall enjoy the same uplift.

MPs wages do not have to be "a pittance". How the average UK salary can be considered to be that I'm not sure. What more powerful incentive could there be for MPs to pursue policy to improve the lot of the average worker, than if they were paid the same amount, and would share in the proceeds of any increase?

Agree totally on publicly owned MPs residencies though (basically you buy/build a few Premier Inn type blocks for them to have as weekday residence) This is an idea I have advocated for ages.

LouiseCollins28 · 18/06/2019 16:38

when did I vote for my gynaecologist Grin

1tisILeClerc · 18/06/2019 16:41

The Ed Davy webchat hardly got started. He was being 'hammered' for some policies of the past that he may not have had much influence over and he wasn't given much chance to say what useful things might happen in future. Not a lot different from the 'all men are bastard rapists' theme that seems to be exhibited on areas of MN.

1tisILeClerc · 18/06/2019 16:46

{when did I vote for my gynaecologist} Grin

Deliberately missing my point that the 'stand in' would be suitably 'qualified' (same political leanings and working under instruction from the MP to deal with the less contentious issues. Kissing babies, opening sewage works and so on.

DGRossetti · 18/06/2019 16:52

I flicked over to the ED webchat, saw the suggestion from MNHQ that it wasn't a single issue chat which immediately signalled to me that the transbrigade weren't too far away so I dropped out. Probably spent about 10 seconds in total on it.

Just a snapshot of how modern debate is being poisoned. If the transbrigade can keep that up with all politicians of all stripes, no wonder the public have given up.

As far as trans, "trans", trans or trans issues go, it's all a question of priorities and community. When the transbrigade have helped eliminate child poverty, homelessness, a humane approach to disability and the systemic underinvestment in public services over the past 20 years, I'll help them decide what colour changing rooms should be. Until then, they're not really helping anyone - which makes me suspect that's the whole point (and which I have openly said before).

RedToothBrush · 18/06/2019 16:56

I think that there should be more people who are not doctors etc, but at the same time they still need to be GOOD at what they are doing.

The job involves a lot of understanding complex issues and reading a lot of difficult documents (or it should and if there are MPs who are not doing this they should be).

You NEED a certain level of education or experience or ability in maths and english. Not necessarily phD level, but you do need basics.

This DOES open up a problem in representation though and parties have a real blind spot here and aren't encouraging a range of people through the ranks at all levels.

The problem with the quality and opportunity for MPs is more down to party politics, nepotism and scratching the right backs more than money. If you come from a middle class background you have the right contacts and CV and are more likely to get picked for this reason.

It comes down to who shouts the loudest and has the most mates in the party. Thats the popularity contest that matters, not the election.

Jared O'Mara really rather proved the point on this. He was picked cos he ticked the right boxes and sucked up to the right people. And its been a total disaster for his constituents.

I wonder if there should be training courses such as apprenticeships for those who don't do so well at school to go into politics and to offer them something to overcome that disadvantage.

Not only this, but there is actually a shortage of people willing to stand across the country as it is. There's lots of people queuing up for safe seats or marginals, but real no depth beyond that. Thats a problem. It just encourages career politicians who have no connection with an area rather than locals coming through in an area who know issues well.

On the financial side, I think about how I could become an MP and how money comes into it though. I would need enough to cover child care otherwise we'd be taking a drop in the quality of life we have. We could do it now, but once we'd moved to our new house, it just wouldn't be an option without having to sell the house and downsize. And you've already stated that you don't like the idea of locum MPs. So straight away your idea means that women are less likely to be MPs than they are now. And thats already not enough. Yes I would like to see better child care policies but if women can't stand to push that, then its even less likely.

Yes, it would be nice to have a lot more MPs from less well off backgrounds who know issues that affect them, but I can't see offering a lower wage as incentivising that either.

OP posts:
LonelyTiredandLow · 18/06/2019 17:09

@Louise I seem to remember when we argued 'I return to my oft stated position that MPs are our representatives, elected on a personal mandate.' you were very clear a by election or two only a few weeks ago, under the premise that even in remain areas, remain voting MP's should work for the and party as people voted for the manifesto...? Hmm

DGRossetti · 18/06/2019 17:10

I think that there should be more people who are not doctors etc, but at the same time they still need to be GOOD at what they are doing

Isn't that the entire fucking point of having a civil service which remains in place regardless of who is in government ? To inform, to advise, to implement and to operate ?

I'm starting to get a little fucked off with suddenly discovering that institutions I have been told for my entire life are responsible for this, or are in charge of that suddenly do a fly-by-night when it seems you expect the fuckers to do their fucking job. Especially when you realise how much they cost with their gold-plated pensions.

LonelyTiredandLow · 18/06/2019 17:12

Got interrupted almost as soon as I started typing there - think it's clear what I meant. Also not amazed leavers don't believe in maternity pay as Farage has been clear this would be part of the Brussels Red Tape he is keen to cut.

DGRossetti · 18/06/2019 17:16

I don't think logical consistency formed part of the Leave manifesto.

Basilpots · 18/06/2019 17:19

Is there a list anyway of MPs previous professions ?

Would be interesting to see how many had run of the mill jobs before.

I don’t agree with my MP on very many things with regards to Brexit, but he does listen to his constituents and does act with the areas best interests. Even I feel sorry for him when I read some of the abuse he getsI can’t fault his effort and he does his best for his area. Pretty sure he must have taken a wage cut to do it too.

When you compare that to the Ukip/Brexit lot who take pride in not doing their job and getting handsomely rewarded financially for pursuing their own agenda.

LonelyTiredandLow · 18/06/2019 17:19

Apparently not DGR Grin
I don't think we are right to be chastising the Civil Service however, IIRC they have been working overtime, having support for mental health issues due to the threat of No Deal (many being struck off once that was apparently 'off the table' again - i.e we've got an extension Hmm) and moral is at an all time low. There's only so much sane people can take of Brexit as attested to by many on this thread.

LonelyTiredandLow · 18/06/2019 17:21

Morale FFS.
I dread to think what a mess we would be in if it were left to the MP's. Boris' recent court case shows why they should listen to experts if nothing else, surely?

Peregrina · 18/06/2019 17:24

To become an MP, one needs to win a popularity contest, that's it.

No, in a significant number of seats you need the correct colour rosette. You can be utterly stupid and you will still get elected, as some of the current crop seem keen to demonstrate.

OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 18/06/2019 17:25

The unelected locum would, in theory, be dealing with constituency caseload, wouldn't they? Not actually working in the House of Commons? So I don't see the problem at all. While an unelected replacement couldn't, say raise a constituent's case at PMQ, they could certainly do plenty of the admin stuff and the 'citizens' advice' type work that forms a large part of an MP's caseload.
That's pretty much how my local MP seems to run things now. Works if you have a well funded party and plenty of volunteers behind you. Not so workable if you don't have those things though.

rosie39forever · 18/06/2019 17:27

I live in a constituency where a dog with a blue rosette would win with a handsome majority there is no hope.

LouiseCollins28 · 18/06/2019 17:37

I entirely accept other people may have opposing views but here's mine.

The "Platform"
MPs stand on a manifesto. Therefore, I believe they should act as MPs in the way they have committed to do in the manifesto upon which they stood for election.

The "Contract"
MPs are elected personally. when I vote in a Westminster election I'd be voting for, for example, Stella Creasy, not "the Labour Party" , or "Labour Candidate #1"

My view is that, as a voter, the sort of "contract" of voting exists between me and whomever is elected as my representative (regardless of whether I voted for that candidate or not, btw). Replacing that person with someone I haven't even had a chance to voted for, isn't right, in my opinion.

Perigrina, that's a good point, well made.

OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 18/06/2019 17:37

I live in a constituency where a dog with a blue rosette would win with a handsome majority there is no hope.
We've joked round here that the only way to get rid of our MP is to sponsor a younger more moderate member of their own party. It won't change the colour of the vote though ultimately. Same where I grew up too, as long as it has a blue rosette it'll get in.

icannotremember · 18/06/2019 17:43

The ED webchat was just embarrassing Mind you the usual suspects can now indulge in a round of back patting and self congratulation for fucking ruining yet another potentially good thread with their insistence that all that should be talked about is what they want to talk about.

Basilpots · 18/06/2019 17:46

Don’t know what the answer is staff constituency offices with civil servants and only change the MP ?? So there is continuity? One of the reasons given for Onasanya getting herself into trouble was supposedly her lack of experience and not enough support.

League tables for MPs performances like schools?? Ofsted for Mps

All very £££

Peregrina · 18/06/2019 17:48

Has the ED webchat been pulled? I have been out most of the day and it isn't listed under Brexit any more. I asked a question.

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