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Brexit

Happy that the NHS is up for grabs?

115 replies

flashbac · 04/06/2019 23:53

Genuine question: if you voted leave what do you think about the NHS being up for grabs as part of a US trade deal?
How did we go from 'lets divert the £350m from the EU to the NHS' (big fat lie as we all know) to opening it up to grabby US healthcare and pharmaceutical companies?
Surely nobody in their right mind can think this is a good thing?

OP posts:
StealthPolarBear · 05/06/2019 20:49

That's a very good point. Where people are paying, they like to get something for their money, so visits are reassurance and based on wants rather than need. Eg women in America visiting a gynaecologisf regularly with no symptoms. Ditto children with paediatricians. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Peregrina · 05/06/2019 20:54

Stealth - if you have the money or insurance to pay. Poor people are more likely to suffer and just put up with things, much as many people in the UK did before the advent of the NHS. If you were lucky you might have been in an employer's scheme and on a doctors 'panel'.

StealthPolarBear · 05/06/2019 20:54

Exactly. Those that can pay have unnecessary appointments and exams. Those who can't pay don't have the necessary ones.

NoWordForFluffy · 05/06/2019 21:07

Her hip replacement on the NHS was first class

My NHS shoulder tendon repair was brilliant! My surgeon was fantastic.

PortiaCastis · 05/06/2019 21:13

My treatment for organ failure aki stage three and sepsis was wonderful....... I'm still here !
Thanks to the NHS

Where would we be without it?

TanMateix · 05/06/2019 21:21

People are worried about chlorinated chicken? That is the least of the worries... let’s start with children cereals and then talk about battery cows... Hmm

HagridsBigToe · 05/06/2019 22:29

So you are happy that the NHS pays a private hospital to do the same work that the NHS would do but is also paying for the private company to make a good profit. This means the NHS is having to cut provision for others.

It's cheaper for the NHS in the long run. They get fined if people wait too long, they get fined if people wait in A+E too long because elective patients are in the hospital beds. The system is wrong, but that's what it is.

jasjas1973 · 06/06/2019 05:14

So you are happy that the NHS pays a private hospital to do the same work that the NHS would do but is also paying for the private company to make a good profit. This means the NHS is having to cut provision for others

All the companies the NHS uses to enable it to provide our healthcare make a profit, what is needed is strong regulation to make sure that profit is not excessive.

Of course we'd all like NHS hospitals to be world class and provide services in house but that isn't the case and even if we started funding the nhs comparable with european healthcare systems, it would take decades to be able to do this.

What do we do in the meantime?

Graphista · 06/06/2019 05:33

Anything but official petitions are useless to be honest.

Link to an official one here

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/242300

Already has over 100,000 signatures which is required to trigger a debate.

But that of course is no guarantee govt will listen.

Liam fox has already "declined to comment" on whether the tories are seriously considering this.

We NEED a GE ASAP!

Absolutely Fucking terrifying what's happening to the uk as a result of the monumental fuck up that is brexit!!

If you voted leave and you're not independently wealthy you're a bloody idiot! Hope you can afford private healthcare cos that is what you voted for and you royally screwed us sick & disabled over too!

Morgan12 I really think such a move would make Scotland leaving the uk far more likely too. Possibly Northern Ireland too.

Totaldogsbody · 06/06/2019 05:48

Say what you want about the NHS but I would rather everyone had access to health care whether they had money or not, only those who have money think private health care is a good idea. The NHS does need an overhaul but it must be a shattering experience to be told your child can't get the treatment it needs because your health plan doesn't cover it. So God Bless the NHS and all those who work in it.

1tisILeClerc · 06/06/2019 07:54

Who 'fines' the NHS when if mises a target,,,,The government.

Who is responsible for the NHS missing the targets,,,The government*.

If the NHS is privatised further, where does the money go,,,,,abroad.

*By having failed to invest and plan properly.

HerSymphonyAndSong · 06/06/2019 09:02

It suits a conservative govt very well for the NHS to be perceived as failing

Graphista · 06/06/2019 15:41

Quite

Happy that the NHS is up for grabs?
dreichuplands · 06/06/2019 15:57

Are you suggesting that when I go to A&E at the local hospital I will be told "sorry, we've sold it to the Americans?"

We took our dc to a walk in emergency clinic in the USA and were turned away because they didn't recognize our insurance. Our dc was sitting there crying in pain.
It happens.
We then had to contact our insurance who said our insurance was valid for the first clinic, by this time we had moved to a second clinic however.
The second clinic wouldn't even look at her hurt arm because they wanted a full cat scan at a hospital. We wanted a medical opinion on whether the arm was sprained.
We weren't told this until we had filled in multiple sheets of paperwork.
In the end we gave up, bought painkillers and came home.

HerSymphonyAndSong · 06/06/2019 16:18

Meanwhile, a few weeks ago, we were 300 miles from home visiting family for the weekend. My 12mo son, who we thought had a mild cold, suddenly went downhill and had breathing difficulties. We turned up at children’s A&E in a city we didn’t know, he was quickly assessed, admitted and put on oxygen. Two days later we were discharged with a little boy one the mend and with medication and advice to go straight to A&E at home should he go downhill. I had been able to stay in a room with him and was given meals and somewhere to wash. We were treated with kindness and care. And we didn’t at any point have to worry about how to afford his care.

Picnicchair · 06/06/2019 16:56

Haven't read the whole thing thread so sorry if this has already been mentioned.

NHS up for grabs irrelevant that Trump is president also irrelevant to Brexit. Unless something's recently changed, the EU are pursuing a similar trade deal with the US, TTIP. Was being discussed under Obama as well as Trump.

I don't want the NHS included in the trade deal, whether we are in or out of the EU btw, but then I equally dislike private companies here being involved, i.e. Virgin Healthcare.

dreichuplands · 06/06/2019 17:21

Brexit is not irrelevant to the USA wishing to have access to NHS markets.
The USA is making access to these markets part of any trade deal.
The UK will be the significantly smaller partner in these negotiations and will have less control over what is included than if we were negotiating as part of the EU block.
Trump's views on what he wants included in a trade deal is not irrelevant either, Trade is an important part of his presidency.
Opening up markets and getting a US friendly deal is an important part of his internal conversation with his base.

ContinuityError · 06/06/2019 17:27

the EU are pursuing a similar trade deal with the US

TTIP negotiations ground to a halt a couple of years ago. New negotiations are under way - the European Commission’s draft mandates for the new talks so far only cover tariff cuts and regulatory cooperation, but corporate lobbyists are pushing for a much broader TTIP-like trade deal, as envisioned by the US Government.

This is what the US PhRMA lobby group are saying:

Government Price Setting – In many EU Member States, governments are the primary payer of health care and medicines and in effect dictate prices. This commanding position often results in EU Member States failing to appropriately recognize the value of innovation in their pricing and reimbursement policies, instead engaging in actions that distort markets and artificially depress prices below what a competitive market would provide, and in some cases outright delay or deny patient access to new innovative treatments. Governments in the EU Member States are increasingly employing a range of regulatory measures, including international reference pricing, therapeutic reference pricing, mandatory price cuts and clawback taxes, and flawed health technology assessments. These measures are often layered to exert maximum pressure on prices.

With these concerns in mind, PhRMA welcomes the Administration’s continued focus on the problem of advanced economies undervaluing U.S. innovative medicines.

It remains critical for the U.S. Government to engage on these issues with its trading partners, and to require immediate and meaningful steps to resolve existing barriers and to ensure patients have faster access to new treatments and cures.

In other words, we want Europe to pay full whack free market rates, just like we charge our customers in the US so we can make a lot of money.

Tavannach · 06/06/2019 17:27

the EU are pursuing a similar trade deal with the US

The EU is a union of 27 nations and is in a much much stronger bargaining position than the UK.

SingingBabooshkaBadly · 06/06/2019 18:22

the EU are pursuing a similar trade deal with the US

The EU is a union of 27 nations and is in a much much stronger bargaining position than the UK.

This ^^

And, additionally, the EU will be in a better position to resist the worst demands of the US because they already have numerous trade deals worldwide. They will be able to negotiate as equals.

We, if the No Deal Brexiteers get their way, or we No Deal accidentally, will be sitting ducks having turned out backs on our biggest trading partner. We will be desperate for a deal and the US - and everyone else for that matter - will know it. Does not compare in the slightest to the EU’s situation in trade negotiations.

Utter folly.

1tisILeClerc · 07/06/2019 07:45

The EU can look at a trade deal on Pharmaceuticals as it should, to keep costs as low as possible, but if the US won't offer a decent price, the EU is big enough to go it alone.
The UK on it's own will not be able to 'demand' a decent deal.

Random18 · 07/06/2019 08:44

I am probably simplifying this too much.

The UK does not want the nHS to be part of any trade deal.

If the UK remained in the EU there ‘may’ be a threat to the NHS due to thenTTIP which is nowhere near to being signed. 27 countries impacted many with Similar setups to UK.

Uk leaves EU and negotiates with US for a free trade deal. US wants NHS. What strength do the UK have to fight it?

So we can’t have a free trade deal with US if we are so determined NHS not to be included.

But how can we not have a free trade deal with uS if we don’t have one with EU.
We surely need one with at least one big partner?

woman19 · 07/06/2019 14:23

Happy that the NHS is up for grabs
Apparently voters are not.
Hence that awful little man's limited company's defeat yesterday in Peterborough. Smile

Picnicchair · 07/06/2019 16:28

I suppose bigger bargaining power as a bloc of 27 should help, but I can't help feeling pessimistic about the future of the NHS Brexit or not.

woman19 · 07/06/2019 17:27

I can't help feeling pessimistic about the future of the NHS Brexit or not

Not what us women and returning military said when they'd won the last fight with that type, and won us the NHS in 1946.

Everything is a choice.