Happy that the NHS is up for grabs?

[flashbac]

Genuine question: if you voted leave what do you think about the NHS being up for grabs as part of a US trade deal?
How did we go from 'lets divert the £350m from the EU to the NHS' (big fat lie as we all know) to opening it up to grabby US healthcare and pharmaceutical companies?
Surely nobody in their right mind can think this is a good thing?

The bigger question is how you protect the overall cost of health provision in this scenario. For example, one of Trump's big gripes is that drugs cost more in the USA than in European markets and, particularly, in the U.K. The NHS is a very large - perhaps THE largest - single buyer from the pharma industry, and it is ruthless about value for money. So it has been very successful in driving drug prices down, at the expense of drug company profits. That situation won't survive a US trade deal, because the pharma lobby has enormous influence over US government policy making.

^^ This.

The American Ambassador was on Sunday's Andrew Marr show talking about the NHS being part of a trade deal so it's not just Trump's lunatic ravings.

In the US the funded system means paying $ 1,000 insurance per* month for a family of four.*

Actually the cost is much higher than that, because US insurance requires patients to "co-pay" for many treatments.

The average cost of healthcare for a US family of four is about $28,000 a year.

It's absolutely disgusting (but not at all surprising). The NHS belongs to the British people. It's one of the few things left that does... I voted Remain, but opposition to TTIP and its impact on the NHS was one of the reasons I considered voting Leave. I'm almost glad Trump made the comments he did. Hopefully it'll be a wake-up call for many people.

Ah good old Capitalism eh.

I have to seriously wonder what the leavers expected to happen to our United Kingdom because they have fucked us all and fucked the future generations of their own family.

I'm just happy I'm Scottish.

Trump might argue the NHS as such, ie the public structure, might not be part of the deal but if US companies become exclusive suppliers of medecine and decives to the NHS the system as we know will be unviable. If we leave without a deal, the reality is we will end up in a US health care (by the back door perhaps but we will). Some people will simply not be treated and die, that's the bitter reality.

More and more treatments will require payment.

A few years ago my DM was sent to a local private hospital for a course of treatment by her NHS GP. On one visit to the hospital she was in the waiting room with a well known sports personality - he probably paid for his treatment, she didn't pay anything - the NHS paid for her.

Financial Times 2017:

More than one-third of the UK’s hip and knee operations are now being carried out by the private sector, as the NHS increasingly outsources non-emergency services.

"Facing a shortage of beds, NHS hospitals are turning to companies including Spire Healthcare, BMI and Nuffield, which now perform 34 per cent of hip and knee replacements—22 per cent of which are paid for by the health service."

"In Nottinghamshire, almost 75 per cent of NHS hip and knee operations are being carried out in private hospitals, according to the analysis of National Joint Registry figures by Candesic, a healthcare consultancy."

In general you should ignore Trump's ravings. He is a 'big ideas' man and will say anything that comes into his head. He does not do 'details'.
You must listen carefully to the 'back row' people, like the Ambassador who has the real intentions of US industry and politicians written down.
Like Farage, Trump spouts whatever gets a crowd going, it looks good and it suggests he is doing the best for the country but there is no detail.
Since the NHS is tightly bound to National Insurance, where does the boundary on personal data lie? There are many unanswered questions as it can even lead back to the situation over Hwahei (or however it is spelled). IF the UK signs up to them for 5G and other networks, the US will boycott personal data transfer, while keeping control.
Like a Rubiks cube, turn one section and other things fall apart.

The issue with the NHS contracting operations to private hospitals is a product of failed NHS management. The overall planning of the NHS is buggered and healthcare trusts are doing whatever they can to 'meet targets' and the government sees targets and competition as a good thing. What they are missing is the planned overview of the whole healthcare system which could bring considerable savings but it would need properly considered planning, involving hospitals, GPs, child and aged care providers etc.

There has been a significant rise in the NHS using private health care providers for routine surgeries on low risk patients. Reducing waiting lists by using under used resources, underused because the cost is prohibitive to those without private medical insurance or substantial personal savings.

More than one-third of the UK’s hip and knee operations are now being carried out by the private sector, as the NHS increasingly outsources non-emergency services.

You are happy with that Clavinova - you think we can all afford to stump up £12K for a hip replacement? For many the alternative is to wait in pain, until the NHS can provide.

I don't want meat full of steroids and chlorine.
Ffs on my way home from the butchers I'll take my steak to the gym dunk it in the swimming pool then go buy steroids. Go home cook and eat why would anyone want that?
What happened to them needing us more than we needed them?
Britain is fucked. I don't know how to fix it but going down the same model as America is going to kill people not improve our quality of life.

The government should be taking an overview of the relationship between the UK citizens and the general health of the whole country.
To have a 'happy' nation which is productive and has the ability to benefit from a good lifestyle they must be healthy. Workers who are sick underperform. Allowing easily preventable illnesses to afflict many is also bad.
The NHS as a complete entity should not be attempting to make a 'profit', but to maintain the health of all, as efficiently as possible.

You must listen carefully to the 'back row' people, like the Ambassador who has the real intentions of US industry and politicians written down.

The Ambassador who, as I said in my earlier post, told Andrew Marr on Sunday that the NHS could be included in future deals with America?

Peregrina
More than one-third of the UK’s hip and knee operations are now being carried out by the private sector
You are happy with that Clavinova - you think we can all afford to stump up £12K for a hip replacement?

The article also says that the NHS pays for two thirds of those operations - I am happy with that. My DM thought her free treatment in the private hospital (funded by the NHS) was wonderful.

I have friends in Ireland who have to pay to see their GP/visit A&E - would you prefer that instead?

There is nothing wrong in private companies being used to provide capacity for so called non emergency treatment.
But we aren't talking about that, the future for uk healthcare is an insurance funded system, the wealthier will pay for acceptable treatment and the poor will be left with a sub standard emergency core service.

Much like you see in Adult Social care now, a state funded residential nursing place is funded below what the cost is, so care is compromised.
The wealthier have a house etc and buy up, reports are that the over 50s may be expected to pay a top up insurance scheme, if they wish to pass on any inheritance.

Exactly the same happens in dentistry or eye care, all done whilst in the EU/EEC.

Stay or leave the EU, its irrelevant, as a society, we are willing to pay the taxes required for a decently funded health service.

we are not willing.....

How is not wanting the usa to get its mitts on the NHS mean that you are trying to stop brexit?

So NHS or anything else. A lot more than that,” he said
Also what the fuck is a lot more than the NHS?

{The article also says that the NHS pays for two thirds of those operations - I am happy with that. }

So you are happy that the NHS pays a private hospital to do the same work that the NHS would do but is also paying for the private company to make a good profit. This means the NHS is having to cut provision for others.

LeClerc - there isn't the beds staff or equipment within the NHS to treat our aging population.
Private hospitals are often underutilised, do not provide an emergency service and can do these ops for less than it costs the NHS, freeing space for emergency treatment.

As i said earlier, we aren't willing nor have been, to pay what is required to properly fund the NHS.

How many of you who are bemoaning Trump/poor/privatised NHS etc have also voted Tory and been pleased to get a reduction in income tax?

Also what the fuck is a lot more than the NHS?

Who knows, but I read yesterday that UK cheese exports to the US have increased from £10m in 2013 to £50m in 2018 (and UK cheese exports to China are up from £67k to £6.5m).

{LeClerc - there isn't the beds staff or equipment within the NHS to treat our aging population.
Private hospitals are often underutilised, do not provide an emergency service and can do these ops for less than it costs the NHS, freeing space for emergency treatment.}

This is where I said the whole 'healthcare' process needs to be treated properly.
The NHS is CHEAPER than private because NHS does not have to make a 'profit' for shareholders. The citizens of the UK are the shareholders.
Using private and claiming it is cheaper is disingenuous because you have stripped out A+E, home care and many other aspects that the NHS does.

{ but I read yesterday that UK cheese exports to the US have increased from £10m in 2013 to £50m in 2018}

Boris wasted £44 million on the 'garden bridge' plan. You are clutching at (cheese) straws to make out this is that relevant.

Who knows, but I read yesterday that UK cheese exports to the US have increased from £10m in 2013 to £50m in 2018 (and UK cheese exports to China are up from £67k to £6.5m). 

And all this happened while we are in the EU - isn't the EU great!