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Brexit

Westministenders: Another Thread, another Shit Show. Its Trump Week

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 01/06/2019 19:56

That is all.

OP posts:
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32
Piggywaspushed · 05/06/2019 12:58

People who think we think Americans and Brits are the same should read Jon Sopel's book If Only They Didn't Speak English in which he explores cultural differences. It's a very good read,

ElenadeClermont · 05/06/2019 13:00

I really appreciate Rory Tory:

Mr Stewart criticised Mr Johnson's plans directly - namely his pledge to renegotiate the Irish backstop or leave without a deal.

He said: "Anyone who knows anything about Europe can assure you there is not the slightest hope of getting a new deal through Europe by 31 October. Not a hope. Europe itself is in transition - they've just had elections, they are appointing a new Commission, they don't even have a negotiator in place.

"There is a lack of realism. We have seen painfully over two and a half years what Europe is doing. Anyone... who is pretending that they're going to go to Brussels and get a different deal simply doesn't understand Brussels, hasn't been following the news, doesn't understand what's happening in Europe at the moment and doesn't understand that the European position is very, very clear.

"Anybody offering that is offering one thing only; they are offering to try to get no deal through in October, because there is no other deal coming."

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48526999

Piggywaspushed · 05/06/2019 13:03

I honestly still cannot get my head around Trump calling someone else out for being a bit disruptive and negative.

Today he was slagging off Bette Midler!

Icantreachthepretzels · 05/06/2019 13:30

The death knell of Rory the tory - the day he explained in simple words what reality was. Brexiteers don't want any of that carry one - and they are the only people who matter who brexitopia.

BigChocFrenzy · 05/06/2019 13:54

The president gets away with his boorishness because the US is a hyperpower.

A cut-price UK version would be a disaster

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/04/trump-america-brexit-power

Trump hates the EU because it upgrades countries, that alone could not compete with the US, into a combined entity that can.

The cynical advantage in fracturing such an alliance is clear.
He wants the UK to be isolated not as America’s peer but as its commercial prey.

Even setting aside ethical imperatives in upholding international rules,
the Trumpian model simply isn’t viable for Britain.

The US is a hyperpower, issuer of the dollar, home to the biggest companies in the world.
Its economic and military mass generate an inescapable gravitational field.

If its president refuses to play by old rules, other countries have little choice but to accommodate his caprice.

That isn’t a noble way to behave in the White House, but it is an available strategy.

The same would not be true for some bargain-basement British mini-Trump in Downing Street.

Many Brexiters fail to comprehend the difference, and their misplaced swagger comes at a price in international credibility.
.....
Trumpism is strong liquor, which the US might just about handle.
It could be the ruin of Britain.

BigChocFrenzy · 05/06/2019 13:57

Matt Dathann@matt*dathann_ GrinGrin

Excl:
Boris Johnson's appeal against the court summons over claims he lied during the referendum has been delayed

- because the judge assigned to the case was Ed Miliband's wife! GrinGrin

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/9224650/boris-johnson-appeal-delay-ed-miliband-wife/

BigChocFrenzy · 05/06/2019 14:09

imo voters will remember WHY there is a by-election - the previous Labour MP was nicked ! - and that's bound to hurt Labour

A Corbynite take on Peterborough and what next for Labour - another one who wants a PV

Ash Sarkar@AyoCaesar

At the moment, Labour looks like a party of Leavers to hardcore Remain voters, and Remainers to hardcore Leave voters
- and prevaricators to those in between.

It'll be a close vote in Peterborough tomorrow, and the Brexit Party may well win;

... as they'd enjoy being boosted by low turnout and have encouraged voters to see the binary as them vs the Lib Dems, to hoover up the Tory support and chip away at the Labour one.
.....
The moral case for Labour's soft Brexit compromise, imo, is strong.
Leave still has a democratic mandate, the country is deeply divided along 2016 lines, politics shouldn't be played as a zero-sum game.

The political case is weak.
Because, quite frankly, very few people want it.
...
The Labourer leadership is coyly shuffling towards the inevitable - a second referendum, with Remain on the ballot, and Labour backing it.

Their current strategy won't survive the next party conference.
...
it's up to Corbyn and his team if they want to hemorrhage trust and optimism over the summer, by looking like reluctant bystanders in their own party's policy, or lead on it.

I think there's a lot to be gained by the latter - and a lot to be lost by the former.

DGRossetti · 05/06/2019 14:12

The US is a hyperpower, issuer of the dollar, home to the biggest companies in the world. Its economic and military mass generate an inescapable gravitational field.

So was the British Empire. And the Roman Empire. And the Mongol Empire. The Gods are jealous and watch us sow the seeds of our destruction as we dare to reach to touch

The Chinese Empire that replaces the American one (as Arthur C Clarke predicted) will also fall. And the Empire that replaces that.

prettybird · 05/06/2019 14:32

The US is a hyperpower, issuer of the dollar, home to the biggest companies in the world. Its economic and military mass generate an inescapable gravitational field

.....and will do anything to maintain that power, including ensuring that the € doesn't take over from the $ as the petrocurrency.

....and encourage the UK to leave the EU in the hope that that trading bloc is damaged, because it was/is strong enough to stand up to the US.

Peregrina · 05/06/2019 14:43

As well as the Ottoman Empire, the Austro-Hungarian Empire, the Spanish Empire, the Inca Empire.......

Clavinova · 05/06/2019 15:26

The Roman Empire is of great fascination and useful to Italian tourism also .It manages to do this without the Roman Empire being in operation.

The Italian economy is dire at the moment - they need a rethink!

As well as the Ottoman Empire
I think I'd prefer Prince Charles as King and Nigel Farage as PM to Erdogan - what a pairing to look forward to! Grin

DGRossetti · 05/06/2019 15:32

The Italian economy is dire at the moment - they need a rethink!

You could have written that at any point in the pasty 50 years ... and yet life goes on. In fact one constant of the UKs membership of the EU has been it's ability to continue to look down on Italy.

DGRossetti · 05/06/2019 15:35

I think I'd prefer Prince Charles as King and Nigel Farage as PM

Actually the other way round would be better for the UK. With Farage able to do fuck all, and a decent if misguided man as PM.

I'd wager Charles loves Britain far more than Farage.

Sakura7 · 05/06/2019 15:53

There was a lovely interview on BBC News just now with a 94 year old WW2 veteran. Towards the end he talked about Brexit, and how he's afraid that everything that has been achieved in bringing Europe together after the war might be torn apart.

The people who actually fought in the war, rather than the ones who loudly brag about it, are very much pro-EU.

StripeyChina · 05/06/2019 16:07

Why isn't Corbyn at the Portsmouth ceremony?

DGRossetti · 05/06/2019 16:09

The people who actually fought in the war, rather than the ones who loudly brag about it, are very much pro-EU

Many years ago, I met a chap (he was a customer at my DFs) who turned out to be a lot older than he looked. The radio was discussing the Maastricht treaty, and he gave a snort at one point. We got chatting, and it turned out he was a motorbike rider in WW2 who was captured at Dunkirk and spent 5 years in POW camps, ending with a forced march Westwards to escape the Red Army. Even in 1991 he got slightly teary as he recalled how every town and village they marched through were in ruins. He was as passionate a European as I have met (sadly will be long gone - maybe a mercy Sad). Turned out he met his wife on that march, and she moved to England.

There's something terribly poignant hearing folk like that telling you they signed up "to see some action", and realise what they went though. And I believe that to a man those that survived would not denigrate the successive generations for being somehow "weak" but would give thanks every day that the sacrifices they made meant we never had to.

But then I heard different stories about the war from my DF - who didn't experience it in Britain which was never occupied.

whitewave · 05/06/2019 16:09

My mum is 100, and is appalled at the prospect of Brexit. She says that “we fought and won the peace, and we have built peace together with Europe” she can’t believe that it is being rejected.

Peregrina · 05/06/2019 16:11

The people who actually fought in the war, rather than the ones who loudly brag about it, are very much pro-EU.

This.

I read yesterday on a facebook page that the Queen served longer in WW2 than the entire Trump family put together. I assume by entire that meant Trump and the hangers on who came to London with him. If you add in the DoE's and Charles Naval service, plus that of Andrew, William and Harry, there is absolutely no contest whatever, as to who has served their country more.

StripeyChina · 05/06/2019 16:11

I guess he isn't one of the leaders of the 16 nations there, right enough

TM spoke well and was more relaxed than I've seen for a long time

ElenadeClermont · 05/06/2019 16:13

Also were the Russians not invited to Portsmouth?
D-day would have had very little effect without the sacrifices of the millions of soldiers serving in the Red Army.

DGRossetti · 05/06/2019 16:19

Also were the Russians not invited to Portsmouth? D-day would have had very little effect without the sacrifices of the millions of soldiers serving in the Red Army.

Interesting point. But are they celebrating D-Day, or the Normandy Landings ? (and is there a difference, apart from semantics).

BigChocFrenzy · 05/06/2019 16:23

Trump dodged the draft for Vietnam

then he criticised those like the late Senator John McCain who actually fought for their country - criticised him for being captured !

I'm amazed how Trump got away with that politically

he and his supporters keep talking about patriotism,
but seem to believe patriotism is love of Trump, not their country or its military heroes,

missclimpson · 05/06/2019 16:30

I think Corbyn was there. Seem to remember he and Vince were taking piccies on their phone before it started.
I thought TM and Trudeau were good and Macron made me cry.

ElenadeClermont · 05/06/2019 16:31

The Russians would not be celebrating, but the UK should have invited them.

DGRossetti · 05/06/2019 16:31

How did Trump get away with being a draft dodger ? All he has to shout is

FAKE NEWS, FAKE NEWS !

And 80% of his supporters drop the issue. They don't want to hear the bad news.

No so blind as those that won't see.

For some reason this popped into my mind.

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