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Brexit

Westministenders: Another Thread, another Shit Show. Its Trump Week

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 01/06/2019 19:56

That is all.

OP posts:
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32
prettybird · 04/06/2019 08:54

You're still thinking from a position if privilege: someone who has a job, who has bills in their name. Confused

What about the people who have neither? Hmm

It's all very well saying only a small amount of people would be disenfranchised and it would be unlikely to make a difference to the overall result Hmm That is an extremely dangerous and slippery slope. Angry

We either have a universal franchise or we don't Sad

1tisILeClerc · 04/06/2019 08:57

ID cards should be free. They would of course be paid for by general taxation.
FWIW I was reading a little about the proposal that the EU has an EU wide ID system, presumably integrating the individual countries ID systems.
Having compulsory ID is one thing (which practically everyone has as they have a National Insurance number/National Health number) is not an issue. It is the regulations about having to carry it all the time.
if the law was that you don't HAVE to have it on your person, but that you could be escorted by the police to go and fetch it would be a sensible 'middle way'.

1tisILeClerc · 04/06/2019 09:00

When the UK leaves the EU, you will probably need to provide your credit card number or Insurance policy before being seen by the hospital, as in the USA.

NoWordForFluffy · 04/06/2019 09:01

And some people will die because of that requirement.

DGRossetti · 04/06/2019 09:01

My original point - that physically turning up to vote should be regarded as the norm - appears to have been derailed by talk of "need for ID".

Which as the current system is a bit of a red herring, since I wasn't suggested we "tighten up" the process of voting in person.

Mainly because in a system where you vote in person, any funny games with voter impersonation can only really deliver one, two, maybe three illegal votes before someone, somewhere would notice.

It also ups the bar needed if you wanted to carry out a large scale election fraud. You'd need a lot more people - meaning more money, more risk.

Now postal voting on the other hand. With it's scope to hoover up potentially hundreds of votes which can be filled in by one single person dramatically lowers the bar for fraudulent activity.

You can put the two methods on a line between "least likely to be corrupted" to "most likely to be corrupted". (If you extend that line a few miles down the road, you can put electronic voting and "guaranteed to be corrupted" at the end).

My point - if there is one - is that on that line, we should really try to keep our voting process much closer to the "least likely" end, rather than move it closer to the "more likely" end. Even at the cost of convenience to some people.

Bearing in mind the nature of this site, and well aware I'm probably lining myself up for a flaming, but it seems for every little victory women seem to achieve over decades - maybe centuries - it is astounding how many are willing to give it all up for nothing.

As some posters have noted it's invariably women that suffer disproportionately when things change in society. From benefit changes, changes in education, changes in employment, changes in healthcare. And yet there are not only women Tory voters - they even manage to dupe women into being Tory MPs.

prettybird · 04/06/2019 09:03

ContinuityError - dh tells the story of when he was working in the States (Massachussets) c30 years ago, one guy, who had just come across from Scotland, tried to buy a trolley load of shopping, including beer, and was refused because they wouldn't accept his (UK) passport as ID Confused - they insisted they needed a driving licence (to buy alcohol Hmm), and this was confirmed by the supermarket manager.

They walked out and left the whole trolley there (which had already been checked through).

Their secretary went on the war path and within a day, dh's colleague had "a licence to drink" (as he put it to his dw) - a non-driving licence driving licence. Grin

Cackleweb · 04/06/2019 09:04

In the 2017 General Election, there were 31 seats decided on a majority of less than 1%. The smallest majority of 2 was in North East Fife. There are around 17 seats where the Conservatives lost or held a seat by a few hundred votes.

It would only take a few hundred disenfranchised in each constituency to have an impact on a narrow general election.

NoWordForFluffy · 04/06/2019 09:04

I'm loathe to give up my postal vote as it just makes it far more simple for me, given my commute / working hours combination.

I do appreciate your point, but life for me is way easier with a postal vote.

Peregrina · 04/06/2019 09:08

My driving licence is the old paper version which will expire when I am 70. Not too many years to go.

Peregrina · 04/06/2019 09:09

I wonder how Farages brexit party will split the Tory vote?

DGRossetti · 04/06/2019 09:15

And some people will die because of that requirement.

Yes, but not the sort of people we need to worry about, eh ?

You made you r point in a country that has already happily allowed people onto national airwaves (and websites) putting forward the case for letting people drown in the channel or Mediterranean with a whole load of "too right mate !!!" comments below the line.

Do you really thing people like that give a tinkers cuss if some poor, old person (probably a woman) dies ? Even if they're white ?

Won't just be American food we'll have to eat. American values too. And quite frankly, at times, the food is more wholesome.

LonelyTiredandLow · 04/06/2019 09:20

DGR I forsee death or injury of a child on holiday who was "only doing something cheeky" splashed all over the Sun with a heading "NASTY EU HOSPITALS REFUSE TO TREAT OUR ETHAN" Hmm

lonelyplanetmum · 04/06/2019 09:23

Had an awful thought yesterday.It was 150 days to Halloween (Brexit Day); with Mrs May's departure and the election of a new Conservative leader, followed by the summer recess towards the end of July, then it's conference season during September.And then it will be a month to Brexit. Time is ticking, blink and it will be the beginning of October.We were given six months by the EU27 and told not to waste it.Oh dear

This with bells on. With our complete political, union and existential crisis going on how I wondered how does it look to the world to be parading all that pomp and splendour at royal banquets? Donnie is obviously a very, very bad thing. But to be lavishing all that money on pomp and circumstance...does it look:

  1. Good because it seems like business as normal with a veneer of 'normal' historical functioning with princes and princesses and a bit of cash behind us. or does it look
  2. Absurdly frivolous while we have a crisis going on.

Also Trump is going to Ireland too.That's a good thing for us because he won't be here. Poor Leo Varadkar though. Trudeau and Varadker should do some subtle programming that gay presidents are a majority thing these days.I don't know if Donnie is homophobic but I'm guessing he would be.

StripeyChina · 04/06/2019 09:27

Re bank accounts and photo ID.
Ds, 14, ASD, has just tried to open a bank account with the Nationwide.

He doesnt have a passport so his only photo ID is a County Council issued logo'ed bus pass. He also has DWP DLA award letter re proof of address. Plus his Mother with him.

None of it sufficient. We needed to fetch his original Birth Cert plus his Father has an account with them (which i was on for 15 years as a joint account but since separation it is solo again). Apparently his Dad needs to go in with him too!

prettybird · 04/06/2019 09:30

It really is quite shocking how the UK is doing exactly what Tusk advised it not do: waste the extra time afforded by the 6 month extension Sad

Remind me again why the EU should feel any requirement to offer another extension, if that's what it does with extra time it has already been given? Hmm

I'm definitely planning to re-build my stockpile Sad

Basilpots · 04/06/2019 09:40

Peregrina with regards to Brexit Party splitting vote I imagine it will quite significantly as things stand. Not sure how much longer Farage can not have a manifesto other than Brexit. BXP party Mep who was on question time claims that their policies will be decided by their ‘subscribers’.

I guess Tory party will do the usual vote BXP/Liberal/ green get corbyn. Only I’m not sure how much of a threat that carries anymore given the mess they are making of things.

CrunchyCarrot · 04/06/2019 09:54

We needed to fetch his original Birth Cert plus his Father has an account with them (which i was on for 15 years as a joint account but since separation it is solo again). Apparently his Dad needs to go in with him too!

Gosh, but at least that worked? A birth cert wasn't enough for me with TSB.Sad

It really is quite shocking how the UK is doing exactly what Tusk advised it not do: waste the extra time afforded by the 6 month extension

It is, but colour me unsurprised. It's depressing. Sad

LonelyTiredandLow · 04/06/2019 09:57

A friend just rang to say that Leadsom has just had an interview and came across very well. She appeared to have "more of a personality than May" which she thought might help. Sadly her phone cut out before I had a chance to elaborate on her stomping out of the HoC but it is concerning that even though she admits to being an arch Brexiteer people are still judging them on a sliding scale, rather than "anyone who accepts No Deal is clearly saying they don't care about the deaths of the poorest" Hmm I think the trope of Project Fear has become so mainstream that it is becoming hard to put the reality into focus even for some remainers. I will call her back shortly and find out which interview it was as I am intrigued! Raab also on but came off less well because he admits he doesn't agree with welfare in any shape - which frankly as a Tory is a given - yet friend didn't see the difference. Is Leadsom a snake-tongued woman?

It seems we have to have an arch Brexiteer" up next to satisfy the baying mob, lest they bother to venture out of their homes in any great numbers Hmm

Cackleweb · 04/06/2019 10:09

Is Leadsom a snake-tongued woman?

Remember the 'I'll make a better PM because I have children and Mrs May is childless' comments?

ContinuityError · 04/06/2019 10:16

prettybird never under estimate the requirement to stick absolutely to the rules in the US. We were turned away from a bar / restaurant because my visiting pensioner MIL didn’t have acceptable proof of age on her Confused

howabout · 04/06/2019 10:27

The full interview is a lot more nuanced than as portrayed by the misquote oft used above.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/andrea-leadsom-interview-theresa-may-mother-tory-leadership-campaign-a7128331.html

Even the discussion above about ID requirements above illustrates the point she was making. Those on the thread with non-driving teenagers trying to open a bank account as a first step into the grown up World are far more cognisant of the issues because their DC regularly encounter them. I can tell my childless DBro about it till I am blue in the face but he is only listening to be polite because he won't have to actually sort it out.

LonelyTiredandLow · 04/06/2019 10:39

OK it was LBC. Here is the link to Leadsom interview this morning.

1tisILeClerc · 04/06/2019 10:40

Beginning to think you lot are trolling me. I have just found my college photo ID and a contractors photo ID from the BBC.

LonelyTiredandLow · 04/06/2019 10:43

2.16mins in and it's cakism suggesting EU will drop WA and agree to UK demands Confused. Plus ca change.