Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westminstenders: A fully functioning government?

960 replies

RedToothBrush · 10/05/2019 23:50

It's been a month since parliament voting on anything.

The staggering reality of May's premiership is that government has ceased to function. We are stuck not just on Brexit but every other issue, such is the weakness of May's authority.

It begs the question of how long this is tolerable by all sides of the Conservative Civil War?

May being unable to bring anything forward means no deal is probably as inevitable as if a hardliner was PM.

There was talk of May / Corbyn reaching a fudge to get a deal via the backdoor WAB (Withdrawal Agreement Implimentation Bill) as it was politically impossible for them to be seen doing a deal any other way. However news today is that despite pressure from the 1922 Committee to bring it forward, May has slapped just a one line whip on it, meaning it will go precisely no where.

The polling for the European elections is perhaps more favourable to Labour than they might have feared after last weeks local election disaster so the mutual interest for Corbyn to move forward in anyway has already gone. Seeing the Tories be humiliated at the ballot box is too much of a temptation.

The phrase about Shit Creek only gets more apt.

All that is happening is every member of the Tory Party is lining up to take part in a leadership contest. It's harder to think of a Tory who isn't considering standing. It's not just the likes of Johnson, Gove, Rudd and Hunt. It's also the likes of Johnny Mercer and Graham Brady queuing not so patiently.

And its getting harder to argue that May is better as PM than the possibility of a right right candidate, because of the paralysis. Though as Rudd rightly points out, such a PM who wanted to actively have no deal as a policy, would struggle to win a majority in the HoC for that all important Queens Speech vote - every bit as much as May. Unless they were to somehow decide they could abuse the power of the executive and ignore parliament - a feat May has repeatedly attempted but ultimately failed at.

All everything feels, is a massive sense of merely delaying the inevitable.

Remain? Hard to see how under any Tory. A Deal? Hard to see what it might be and how there will be a Parliamentary majority. A PV? Well that still has to get through parliament and needs to be arranged smartish. And might not resolve the Irish border issue if the vote goes 'the wrong way' A General Election? That still seems to be a distinct possibility. But with the seeming resurrection of the LDs that's one the Tories will be desperate to avoid. Not that Corbyn is likely to succeed either. And of course there is now the Spectre of the Turquoise Arrows lurking. The crushing of the purple pound notes feels a hollow and distinct success.

It feels like we are waiting for the political sky to fall in in some sort of never ending Brexit Purgotory.

The cataclysmic event will occur at some point. It has to. But for now, it feels that there is nothing but waiting and waiting to be done.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
39
Littlespaces · 16/05/2019 09:58

Yay! LedByDonkeys is back

@ByDonkeys
Brexit Party leader @Nigel_Farage hasn’t written a manifesto so we’ve done it for him, based on statements by him and his candidates. Billboards going up across the country this week. See more at TheBrexitParty.com (location: Radford Rd, Coventry)

Westminstenders: A fully functioning government?
1tisILeClerc · 16/05/2019 10:06

I hope LedByDonkeys send the invoice for marketing costs to Farage, after all they are doing work for him!

Littlespaces · 16/05/2019 10:06

Jeremy Corbyn has come off the fence.

twitter.com/BBCLookNorth/status/862292802708832260

borntobequiet · 16/05/2019 10:10

Great that LBD is back. Will donate. And oddly feel better voting for the Fucking LDs than just the LDs. Perhaps all political parties should consider a sweary prefix.

1tisILeClerc · 16/05/2019 10:11

Actually I don't want to be a 'neighsayer' * but some that are hard of forward thinking might have the idea that insurance based health provision would be good and it is putting the face of Farage out there.

  • spelling intended.
woodpigeons · 16/05/2019 10:13

Corbyn can’t even be original. ‘Can I make it clear’ is mayspeak.

bellinisurge · 16/05/2019 10:16

Corbyn craves chaos. He gives people a reason not to vote Labour and adds to the chaos that he craves.
He hopes momentum twats can emerge victorious from the chaos.
Opportunistic bollocks as usual from him.

borntobequiet · 16/05/2019 10:17

I think it’s possible to have partly insurance based health systems that work OK, if properly planned and implemented. Don’t most European countries have such systems? Just the US one that’s so bad.
Some Farridge fans will be OK with insurance because they already have it. But many of the “hard of forward thinking”(nice phrase) won’t, because - well, they’re hard of forward thinking. And insurance requires thinking about and paying for.

Violetparis · 16/05/2019 10:20

Great to see Led by Donkeys back, they are by far the best remain campaigners.

TatianaLarina · 16/05/2019 10:31

Off the fence and into the compost heap.

TalkinPaece · 16/05/2019 10:32

Another one delighted that Led By Donkeys are back

TatianaLarina · 16/05/2019 10:33

The US and EU health insurance models are completely different.

The French and German system are state health insurance, the US is private health insurance.

kayola · 16/05/2019 10:37

I think it’s possible to have partly insurance based health systems that work OK, if properly planned and implemented. Don’t most European countries have such systems?
Of course they do. And many of them have better medical outcomes than the NHS does in some key areas. So Nigel Farage has nothing to be ashamed of in wanting to at least discuss this. People are sensible and they realise this. Smears do not work. Ad hominem attacks do not work. I don't share the Led by Donkeys love. Remain campaigns needs to be positive. They need to emphasise the positives of the EU not put up massive pictures of the opposition.

1tisILeClerc · 16/05/2019 10:42

Maybe Mistigri or other French resident could elaborate but there is a 'basic' healthcare in France and you 'top up' with an insurance based contribution which 'enhances' the basic provision.

I imagine Putin is rubbing his hands with glee at the continued confusion and division that the UK is causing by this prolonged Brexit Bollocks. The Tories, Farage and Labour are all helping him.

BigChocFrenzy · 16/05/2019 10:44

The German state system allows those of over a certain income to opt out of payments and take out private insurance.
People can't swap back though, or join the state scheme over a certain age (which ruled it out for me)

Big problem in switching to a German / French -type system is the horrendous task of changing very complicated systems while 65 million people are still using it .... without great disruption

Also, of course, the Atlantic Bridge Brexiters want the US system where those who aren't well off have no / inadequate insurance, or lose it if they lose their job

  • and being made unemployed can be at 1 hour notice without any grounds, as happened to my cousin's husband when their whole division was closed down one day, after their firm was sold to a vulture capitalist
Peregrina · 16/05/2019 10:45

That LedByDonkeys is so good, I have posted a copy on the other thread for the Leavers to Rejoice about.

nothingwittyhere · 16/05/2019 10:48

However, Farridge's words show he wants a US-style system:
"Frankly, I would feel more comfortable that my money would return value if I was able to do that through the market place of an insurance company than just us trustingly giving £100bn a year to central government and expecting them to organise the healthcare service from cradle to grave for us."
I've recently read that health needs are the biggest cause of individual bankruptcy in the US. Sad

frumpety · 16/05/2019 10:48

Got our UKIP leaflet this morning, still no sign of a Conservative one.

BigChocFrenzy · 16/05/2019 10:51

"smears" ?

More money for the NHS - which Brexiter Tories have since weaseled out of - was a big reason for some Leavers to vote Out.

If BREX policy is to replace the NHS - like many Tory Brexiters want - then that needs to be publicised, so voters have this information
and can choose between the other Leave parties: Tory, Labour, UKIP (UKIP still want more NHS money iirc)

1tisILeClerc · 16/05/2019 10:54

I don't doubt that the medical practitioners on the 'front line' have great suggestions to improve the service which if properly managed could reduce costs and improve efficiency. Management and senior management and the overall direction that should be coming from the government may well be failing those that see all the pitfalls on a daily basis.
Farage is NOT promoting any 'better practice' but only Farage himself. He has no 'staying power' and spouts whatever crap and lies he thinks will boost himself at that moment.
Until the government and MSM stop peddling lies this Brexit mess will continue and the UK will slide further into decline.
Pretending that signing the WA is 'optional' for example is a massive lie and so far Theresa is one of the few who seem to understand this.

kayola · 16/05/2019 10:58

You may be right BigChoc but Leavers already know what Nigel Farage is like. They don't care. They know he can never get into Westminster on an anti-NHS ticket. Meanwhile they are happy to use him to win Brexit for them. Just as remainers are happy to vote for anyone who can keep them in the EU. (Witness the sudden love for the Lib dems!)
If you want to win Leavers over to your side you need to be positive about remaining in the EU. Where are the positive posters?

frumpety · 16/05/2019 10:58

How much does the average citizen pay for their health cover in France and Germany ?

BigChocFrenzy · 16/05/2019 11:10

Examining what politicians say and what the full range of their policies are
should be a big part in deciding how to vote, rather than just feelz

For some, the NHS is important
For others, who may be far from politically correct, a politician who chanted "Gas the Jews" at Dulwich college and later used terms like ni@@er and n@g-n@g to UKIP colleagues may be unacceptable.

Main tasks imo:
Remain need to get their vote out, especially the young
and also stop voting for Leave parties like CON+LAB

Turnout for different age groups was a big factor in the 2016 ref result
and the Remain vote % has increased since then

Songsofexperience · 16/05/2019 11:16

On Corbyn getting off the fence, he's just killed Labour. Never voting for them whilst he's there.

Littlespaces · 16/05/2019 11:20

If you want to win Leavers over to your side you need to be positive about remaining in the EU. Where are the positive posters?

From @davidschneider

POSITIVES FOR STAYING IN EU

Consumer protections
Environmental protections
Free trade creating jobs
Euratom
Access to largest single market in world
Maternity/paternity rights
Investment in some of the poorest areas often abandoned by our government
Scrapping roaming charges
Scientific/medical research collaboration
Security collaboration
Galileo satellite programme
Erasmus student programme
Students able to study in 30 countries
#ThankEU

1 in 10 doctors in the NHS
The right to live, love, work and retire in 30 other countries
Clean air
Clean beaches
Clamping down on tax avoidance
Workers’ rights
Disability rights
LGBTQ+ rights
70 years of peace
EU citizens contributing to our society and our economy
#ThankEU

Collaboration in fight against cybercrime, trafficking etc
Increased global influence
Peace in Northern Ireland
#ThankEU

and from the comments

Self confidence
Being welcoming to new people and ideas
National pride
Good Friday Agreement protected
No of chemicals banned re product manufacturing 🇪🇺 1200 🇺🇸 5
Biggest free trade bloc in world,
Numerous ta’s and more on the way
The Libson Treaty requires EU policy to promote both citizens rights and the environment.
Human rights
Artistic & academic projects, funding, individuals - everything from ballet to archaeology really.
Not widely known but EU safety legislation on building sites (CDM in the jargon) has saved hundreds of lives and injuries since it was introduced in 1994.