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Brexit

Westminstenders: 1001 Ways to wait for EUCO - Sprouts, Nits and Brexit

986 replies

RedToothBrush · 10/04/2019 22:36

Not much more to say other than, all we can do is wait to hear our fate.

Which seems to lie in the hands of Macron.

I think these tweet sums a lot of it up from a couple of jaded soft leavers

Iain Martin @ iainmartin1
This terrible farce in Brussels tonight is like being British during the eurovision song contest. British entrant awaits fate, watching humiliating results come in, trying to smile for the audience back home.

George Trefgarne @georgetrefgarne
To be honest I think Buck’s Fizz and Cheryl thingummy would have made a better job of it

My advice: Don't wait up!

Pippa Crerar @pippacrerar
EU source on Macron: "He is in a bit of a schizophrenic situation - (his) domestic audience demands that he is tough on Britain for historic reasons. On the other hand, France is among the most-hit in any no-deal Brexit. It will take hours before we pull him down from his tree."

So Macron may end up being the one who gets the UK what it wants but is doing it to be tough on us. I'm not sure I understand EU politics.

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RedToothBrush · 11/04/2019 16:13

Diane Abbott @ Hackneyabbott
Home Secretary claims law applies to everyone. But no-one argued that Julian Assange's skipping bail here should be ignored. It's the extradition to the US that is at issue, where he faces lengthy imprisonment for whistle blowing of US military operations in Iraq.

Operation Damage Limitation already in progress.

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RedToothBrush · 11/04/2019 16:14

Suspect Assange is quite "niche" to the average voter.

Possibly but it feeds the idea that Corbyn is a supporter of Putin. Which I have heard ordinary voters be concerned about. Its a national security thing which also fits in with Trident too.

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LouiseCollins28 · 11/04/2019 16:19

Agree Red, Labour "optics" on security matters are frequently hopeless. Though sometimes the Government's are little better.
Where is Assange being sent to USA or Sweden? I'm confused.

tobee · 11/04/2019 16:19

The current Labour leadership and their acolytes consider Tony Blair to not have been a Labour leader. They believe that New Labour was an aberration and that Corbyn is real Labour. This is why they do not take any notice of what Blair did to be elected. To get successive landslides. That that is not relevant to them. Hmm

howabout · 11/04/2019 16:23

"Possibly but it feeds the idea that Corbyn is a supporter of Putin."

Anyone in that particular political space is never seriously considering voting Labour and especially not with JC at the helm. Everyone talks about the Labour Left echo chamber but what is striking to me is how much of an echo chamber the ever shriller Tory media etc are becoming.

The "genius" of Cameron / Osborne / Gove in 2015 was the ability to read their opponents and waverers and nudge them Tory wise. Their successors are singularly inept at this.

prettybird · 11/04/2019 16:29

Alternatively howabout , if the LibDems had voted Green (or vice versa Wink), then the Green (or LibDem) would've got in, rather than UKIP Confused

The real problem in 2014 was the collapse in the LibDem vote, following their WM coalition with the Tories Sad (not saying it was right that they were punished for it though - just that that on the face of it looks like what happened)

LonelyTiredandLow · 11/04/2019 16:29

But if Leavers assume Assange is pro Russia and think JC is, how do they square that with Assange's Farage connection if they don't believe their party was supported by dark money? Grin

woodpigeons · 11/04/2019 16:33

I also got a TIG email.
Would love to do it but really not healthy enough.

prettybird · 11/04/2019 16:39

Just trying to catch up (so some of my comments will be a bit out of sequence) as dh and I had a semi business lunch with a Remain/Indy voting friends (but there again, all our friends are Wink) and a business colleague/friend over the the States (we had been working with both of them a couple of years ago on a business project that didn't come to fruition but still has potential

The American is a well-travelled, socially minded Democrat so we were able to share embarrassment about what is happening in our respective countries Grin (plus his CEO, who is a Republican, is the one who managed to block the UK business opportunity because he couldn't get his head around the "socialised" health system here and lack of profit as a driver Hmm).

I did shock our friend though when we were talking about the EU, because he tried to make the point that no-one knows how their MEP is - and I was able to reel off the names of 3 of our 6 Scottish MEPs Grin Unfortunately, that also included the name of the odious, execrable UKIP MEP Sad

woodpigeons · 11/04/2019 16:39

The Guardian:

Does that mean Brexit day happens at Halloween?

Not necessarily. It will be a “flextension”. After what Merkel described as “intense” discussions, it was agreed the UK still had three choices: it could ratify the existing withdrawal agreement and leave at any time between now and Halloween; it could revoke article 50 and remain in the bloc; or it could leave without a deal. But Tusk also made clear that the EU could extend article 50 again in October.

howabout · 11/04/2019 16:42

Agreed pretty but that would have wasted the excess Labour / SNP votes and so would have needed one or other to step aside. Thus vote lending to the major party closest to your preference tends to be more effective. If LibDems (or anyone else) were a guaranteed 3rd place then it would make sense for everyone to concentrate splinter votes to them. Will be interesting to see if the TiGs start going after LibDem / Greens to do this but would run the risk of alienating sympathisers without a formal pact.

LonelyTiredandLow · 11/04/2019 16:46

Just reading up a bit on Gore Vidal - realised I can't remember much about him at all. Found interesting bits on Wiki (wasn't Norman Mailer a person of interest?) and I think the Polanski view speaks loudly for Assange.

The Mailer–Vidal feud
On December 15, 1971, during the recording of The Dick Cavett Show, with Janet Flanner, Norman Mailer allegedly head-butted Vidal when they were backstage.[94] When a reporter asked Vidal why Mailer had knocked heads with him, Vidal said, "Once again, words failed Norman Mailer".[95] During the recording of the talk show, Vidal and Mailer insulted each other, over what Vidal had written about him, prompting Mailer to say, "I've had to smell your works from time to time". Apparently, Mailer's umbrage resulted from Vidal's reference to Mailer having stabbed his wife of the time.[96]

National self-preservation
In 1999, in the lecture "The Folly of Mass Immigration", presented in Dublin, Vidal said

A characteristic of our present chaos is the dramatic migration of tribes. They are on the move from east to west, from south to north. Liberal tradition requires that borders must always be open to those in search of safety, or even the pursuit of happiness. But now, with so many millions of people on the move, even the great-hearted are becoming edgy. Norway is large enough and empty enough to take in 40 to 50 million homeless Bengalis. If the Norwegians say that, all in all, they would rather not take them in, is this to be considered racism? I think not. It is simply self-preservation, the first law of species.

— Gore Vidal[99]
Interview on his thought on the Polanski rape case
In The Atlantic magazine interview, "A Conversation with Gore Vidal" (October 2009), by John Meroney, Vidal spoke about topical and cultural matters of U.S. society. Asked his opinion about the arrest of the film director Roman Polanski, in Switzerland, in September 2009, in response to an extradition request by U.S. authorities, for having fled the U.S. in 1978 to avoid jail for the statutory rape of a thirteen-year-old girl in Hollywood, Vidal said, "I really don't give a fuck. Look, am I going to sit and weep every time a young hooker feels as though she's been taken advantage of?"

Asked for elaboration, Vidal explained the cultural temper of the U.S. and of the Hollywood movie business in the 1970s

The [news] media can't get anything straight. Plus, there's usually an anti-Semitic and anti-fag thing going on with the press – lots of crazy things. The idea that this girl was in her communion dress, a little angel, all in white, being raped by this awful Jew Polacko – that's what people were calling him – well, the story is totally different now [2009] from what it was then [1970s] ... Anti-Semitism got poor Polanski. He was also a foreigner. He did not subscribe to American values, in the least. To [his persecutors], that seemed vicious and unnatural.

magimedi · 11/04/2019 16:53

I know my questions is a bit like asking how long a ball of string is but what does anyone reckon the chances of us leaving on June 1st are?

I need to drive to Europe around that time to help family & don't want to pick that day (which is my preferred day of travel) if it is leave day.

prettybird · 11/04/2019 17:10

magimedi - if it's any reassurance, my personal opinion (as a random person on t'internet Grin) is that the odds are pretty close to zero Shock

Given the deadlock we've been in for so long, I don't see it being resolved in the next 7 weeks - especially as the MPs are off on holiday for 2 of them Hmm

Come to think of it, I don't see it being resolved by Hallowe'en Confused

RedToothBrush · 11/04/2019 17:11

I know my questions is a bit like asking how long a ball of string is but what does anyone reckon the chances of us leaving on June 1st are?

I wouldn't hold my breathe that would would.

We'd leave the week before, before the EU elections if we are going to leave around that time. Otherwise we'll push it to the 30th June.

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DGRossetti · 11/04/2019 17:11

I have (had ?) a lot of time for Gore Vidal - he predicted the demise of Thatcher in the late 80s when she seemed a goddess. The interviewer (probably Parky) gave him a "yeah, yeah" reaction.

He was also very blunt about Britains place in the world when same interviewer suggested that England was somehow "special" in relation to the Japanese economic miracle

As a Japanese friend said to me ... 'The only thing we need from the English is their language. And we've already stolen that ....'

pollyannaperspective · 11/04/2019 17:16

Not sure of the EU Parliament timetable, but one of the questions to the PM today was about the EU Parliament approving the 'Withdrawal Agreement' in the very few sitting days left before the EU MEP elections. PM's response was that the few days left to the current EU Parliament was not a problem because they could approve the 'Withdrawal Agreement' before the UK Parliament. My question would be - why would the EU Parliament do that?

usuallydormant · 11/04/2019 17:19

The Rime of the Ancient Brexiter...

www.irishtimes.com/opinion/the-rime-of-the-ancient-brexiter-an-irishman-s-diary-1.3856107

woodpigeons · 11/04/2019 17:20

Very funny

A Brief Guide to Mark Francois, the Brexit Hero Nobody Knew They Needed

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/mark-francos-spartan-phalanx_uk_5cacac1ee4b02e7a705da9ff?guccounter=2

prettybird · 11/04/2019 17:23

Doesn't the EU (flex)extension mean that we "leave" (with a Deal) at the beginning of the month following whenever we sign the WA (which is and remains the only "deal" on the table)?

Or it's, as the lovely Tusk outlined again a choice by 31 October amongst: extension again (the awarding of which is not a given Hmm); Revoke (at any point up until then); or No Deal Shock.

Round and round the mulberry bush..... Confused

woman19 · 11/04/2019 17:25

Gore Vidal:. Those views look reprehensible now. lonely; I do see they are clearly absolutely not acceptable now.

I have (had ?) a lot of time for Gore Vidal
Me too.
He was close to JFK and Jackie O until they fell out with her. He was very close to Tennessee Williams, and was courted by Susan Sarandon Tim Robbins later in life. He knew everyone. Wink Facinating fellow; very funny. His historical novels are a great introduction to US policial history. I met him. Smile (As in, he signed my book Blush when I went to 'Book Club' recording at BBC R4 many years ago) Good bio about him here:
www.netflix.com/gb/title/70274597

woman19 · 11/04/2019 17:26

until Vidal fell out with Jackie O or vice versa

woman19 · 11/04/2019 17:29

@davidallengreen
David Allen Green Retweeted Åklagarmyndigheten

Breaking - the Swedish Prosecution Authority has announced it is now formally reviewing whether to renew its extradition request fro Assange.

This follows a request today by the @ElisabethMFritz, lawyer for the complainant.

(Sweden has as many macro political and democratic integrity reasons to investigate this fellow as the US dems, I would have thought)

BigChocFrenzy · 11/04/2019 17:46

If the UK begs for yet another extension, then unless the HoC has already passed the legislation for a PV,
I wouldn't be surprised if the answer is "Not on your nelly" in several langauges

How long do we expect 27 other countries to pander to the UK's political paralysis ?