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Brexit

Westminstenders: The Schlong Extension

971 replies

RedToothBrush · 06/04/2019 13:18

If Macron gets his way we have less than a week. And he seems pretty gung ho - convincing Spain and Belgium, when his veto, alone, would be enough

^Everyone talking about the flextensionschlong extension needs to listen to Macron. If he has his way - it's not happening.
Icantreachthepretzels

What has Macron actually said though and what does he actually believe in?

Just after the first extension was given, Macron said that if nothing changed before the 12th that DID NOT necessarily mean no deal ON the 12th itself. He said it could be on a day of the EU's choosing. It was a hint at a stay of execution at least.

In the last 24 hours or so, the noises have been that France favours no deal but wants two weeks for the markets to prepare. That's consistent with Macron's previous comments.

So I think it's fairly reasonable to take this as your baseline minimum. That would put us exiting on around 26th. I don't think we can refuse this minimum simply because we need every possible day we can get.

Indeed Macron apparently said at the last EU summit that he was in favour of an unconditional offer to stay in until 7th May but Merkel disagree not wanting us to exit the day before the EU's day of unity (9th).

So I think its reasonable that staying in until the 7th is very possible, but if Merkel is unhappy for symbolic reasons I think shift to the following week would be a reasonable compromise to Macron. Or it could make the 26th more likely.

Now the question is just how wedded Macron is to a Hardline approach? We know its Tusk and Merkel pushing Flextension because they lived in Eastern Europe at they have personal reasons over it. We know that Merkel only ever raised her voice to Cameron once over a conversation involving putting up borders with free movement. It's her big thing. And for Macron domestically he's made loud noises about the UK going sooner rather than later. He did a big uturn on his initial comments in agreeing to the 12th / 22nd. So there is something of a collision course here one way or another. Someone has to back down. Who will it be?

My suspicion is that privately whilst Macron knows he has to be tough and favours a sharp exit for domestic reasons he also respects Merkel. How he values his relationship with Merkel might be a big consideration as to how far he is prepared to compromise as well as how many others share France's reservations. I think it notable that whilst France has the power of veto, it seems to be trying to get the support of some of the other 26 too. I think it unlikely France would go for a veto if it were in a minority of one simply because that wouldn't be great for EU unity if others think it a high risk to go for only a short extension. So how easy it is to change the minds of others is perhaps more important than France’s position alone. Whilst throwing his weight around might look attractive and tempting to getting a more French centred leading of the EU post Merkel and whilst he might want to crack on with a much more integrated EU, he's not going to starting from a good place if France is resented for its hardline over Brexit. I'd argue that realistically France needs to work with the other 26 to get any reforms and leadership it wants.

Thus any concessions given won't be because Macron has sympathy for the UK, but because it suits his long term agenda in the EU.

Its worth remembering the conclusions of the last summit, in this context, were also of the opinion that we were more or less incapable of looking after ourselves and almost a failed state that needed baby sitting. They clearly think May is incapable. They may well favour a long extension purely on this basis to let Tories, Tory because no deal and a government collapse at the same time might be something they consider to be exceptionally bad and destabilising. And therefore pose something of a security risk to the EU. (France would, perhaps, be most exposed to this in theory). Indeed Alberto Nardelli of BuzzFeed reported yesterday that many felt a short extension was very risky to the EU. That suggests Macron is somewhat on the back foot.

There is also the observation that transition under the WA isn't a whole lot different to an extension. The real only stumbling block is the EP. The term Flextension really only hides this. And No Deal will merely lead to the WA at some point

No Deal just has a dangerous chaos section in the middle.

The French are certainly not convinced of a long extension though (and Tusk has acknowledged this in his push for a long extension. He is taking the French position seriously and is seeking to persuade rather than dismissing as posturing). On the other hand, its also taken seriously by hardline Tories looking to drive a wedge. Jacob Rees-Mogg's tweet about being obstructive in the EU parliament was very firmly aimed at influencing Macron. Arguably this might well have the opposite affect as it goes, as Macron will be smart enough to see it for what it is.

The other consideration in all this is the make up of the European Parliament itself. There are 14 countries who get extra seats. I can't find the full list, but here's nine of them: Denmark, Croatia, Austria, Finland, Sweden, Ireland, Italy, France and Spain. Having more seats is an important thing. And might be influential on what happens.

In Ireland's case it's particularly difficult. Unlike the UK it DOES NOT have a list system.

Peter Foster @pmdfoster
I understand Ireland is a tricky case, because it doesn't have list system.

This means you can't elect four MEPs and then choose top 3 until UK leaves and IE takes fourth seat...becuase if you ran only a 3-seat election you would get different top 3, than if ran 4-seat

Schlong extension with guillotine is something of a practical issue that needs clarification for the Irish; it's not really viable if we aren't committed to staying in for a fixed amount of time, whatever that might be. Exiting at our time of choosing or just having elections and then never taking our seats it's going to stick. I can't see how it will. So that's the exit on 30th June ruled out. Our exit will be something the EU will want to control the date of in some way, even if there is a 'guillotine clause'.

Nick Gutteridge (Sun) thinks a long extension is the most likely option on the balance of probabilities. Peter Foster (Telegraph) is slightly more doubtful and hestitant after hearing the French line. Prior to this he stated: “No deal” risk receded (for now) soon as May indicated Monday night she was open to ‘flextension’ and EU elex. Alberto Nardelli (BuzzFeed) and Katya Adler (BBC) seem to be of a similar mind set to Foster. Gutteridge and Foster have generally been more reliable than British journalists.

The big but to all this is whether May triggers EP elections in the Privy Council before the summit to signal her commitment. If she fails to do it, thinking she can do it after the summit, she won't be taken seriously and I think there is real danger it will revert to the French line.

If nothing else, if I had £100 to bet on whether we are still in the EU next Saturday, I think I'd have to put it on yes we will be. I may be wrong, but despite EU anger and frustration there isn't much to suggest a hard and fast guillotine on the 12th itself.

Will May and the ERG except a long extension? May sounds like she already has. But this is May, and until she takes action, she can't be trusted. Gove is quoted as saying: “It does not matter what the length of the extension that may be offered is. It ends at the point we are out” which seems to be a considered moderate response. Mogg's comments read as a belligerent acceptance of a long extension rather than a total rejection of the idea completely.

So I think if we are offered a long extension, we'll go through all the usual Peter Griffin impersonations and Boris Johnson huffing and puffing that it's a bad thing but it will be sucked up.

Then theres the question of May. She said she'd stay until the next phase. But a date of the 22nd May was also touted. That's probably more what Brexiteers will have their eyes on, than an extension which they will tolerate. It gives them longer to prep for no deal after all. And that ultimately might not be against the interests of the EU either. It just continues the transfer of business to the EU after all.

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RedToothBrush · 06/04/2019 21:52

Hang on. 17 candidates for a list of 10?

Thats not good at all.

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OhYouBadBadKitten · 06/04/2019 21:53

'is that a polite way of saying 'look like a bit of a car crash scrapping the barrel?''

not really, it's a bit like choosing school governors really, some are clearly very much more qualified than others. Only one really raised my hackles.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 06/04/2019 21:57

We don't know how many candidates the other parties have to be fair and I don't know what is usual. I wouldn't be surprised if it's lower than usual, how many will have had it on their ambition list this time given the lack of knowledge of whether it's going to happen or how long the job will be for. If you are serious about it, how can you make such a big decision about something that might last weeks or years?

yolofish · 06/04/2019 21:57

happy brithday prettybird I hope you've had a lovely day! and many more to come... pref brexit free but one can dream!

woman19 · 06/04/2019 22:04

Links for anyone who wants to/ knows anyone standing as MEP.

@DmitryOpines
Will happily (and confidentially) advise any candidate for the European Parliament looking to brush up on their trade policy knowledge ahead of the elections.

Don't be the only one on a debate stage who thinks GATS is something Tupac and Biggie carried.

(Also, The Women's Equality Party did a crash course in media presentation skills for women candidates? Fighting skills, worth learning)

I love Kelvinside Gallery, prettybird sounds like a lovely day. Smile

woman19 · 06/04/2019 22:07

There should be no messing about on tickets this year though. One remain candidate per ward.

LonelyTiredandLow · 06/04/2019 22:09

Is there a bumper sticker in French akin to the "Don't blame me I voted Remain!"Hmm. 'Je suis desole pour Brexit' (with the acute accents obvs) I'm looking at a holiday in Normandy...

CrunchyCarrot · 06/04/2019 22:21

Well the business news about the possibility of reopening tin mines in Cornwall show promise

The Poldarks will be back in business! Grin

I am not going to be hiding in cupboards crying. All the sodding cupboards are full of food supplies etc.

Mine are too, Blue !

RedToothBrush · 06/04/2019 22:21

Sounds like the Tories would like to throw the locals and any potential EU elections.

Westminstenders: The Schlong Extension
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havingtochangeusernameagain · 06/04/2019 22:22

When I went to the Netherlands and Germany immediately after the referendum I had a "stronger in" sticker on my passport...

BelfastBloke · 06/04/2019 22:25

Don't tell me you knew what you were voting for in 2016.

You did NOT vote for a no-deal at the time.
You did NOT vote for Scotland to become independent.
You did NOT vote for a united Ireland (even if you don't mind if it happens)
You did NOT vote to destroy the NHS.

TiddleTaddleTat · 06/04/2019 22:27

Pmk

CrunchyCarrot · 06/04/2019 22:40

Aha so May has spoken again - 'no sign Brexit can be passed in Parliament in the near future' - No sh*t Sherlock!!

Vote for my deal or no Brexit - change the record please.

Motheroffourdragons · 06/04/2019 22:41

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

CrunchyCarrot · 06/04/2019 22:44

You did NOT vote for a no-deal at the time.
You did NOT vote for Scotland to become independent.
You did NOT vote for a united Ireland (even if you don't mind if it happens)
You did NOT vote to destroy the NHS.

I'll confess I voted Leave, and I most certainly never envisaged any of those things happening. I now deeply regret that vote and if I get another chance I'll be voting Remain or Revoke. I feel everything has panned out totally differently and I was very unaware of many issues. I guess I am a Bregretter if that's a word! The Leave campaign just glossed over or omitted so many vital things and honestly I feel I've been hoodwinked.

RedToothBrush · 06/04/2019 22:46

The Sunday Times is reporting the 'Boris Lock' to legally tie the political declaration to something soft.

I'll believe it when I see it.

Westminstenders: The Schlong Extension
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HazardGhost · 06/04/2019 22:48

crunchycarrot genuinely sorry you feel hoodwinked that's such a rotten feeling. (Bregretter is a fab word!)

BlueEyeshadow · 06/04/2019 22:54

twitter.com/LoveSocialism/status/1114634254938529792

Interesting letter from 80 Labour MPs to Jezza - couched in the only language he understands, but will it do any good?

CrunchyCarrot · 06/04/2019 23:00

Thanks Hazard. I simply can't identify with Brexiteers now, esp those like the detestable JRM.

The worst of all this is that even if by some chance Brexit is revoked, we can't go back to how things were, this whole fiasco has irreversibly screwed our country and relationships both personal and international for a very long time.

HazardGhost · 06/04/2019 23:07

crunchycarrot Idk I think maybe because the government has been so crap there's a lot of common ground. Remain felt let down since the ref and leave have felt let down on the journey since then iykwim? International relationships...that's a lot of muffin baskets and apologies Grin

twattymctwatterson · 06/04/2019 23:10

Crunchy total respect to you for being able to review the evidence and admit you've changed your mind. So many people seem to be entrenched in their beliefs no matter how much evidence comes to light

CrunchyCarrot · 06/04/2019 23:21

Thanks Hazard and twatty - I think pretty much everyone feels let down by this point no matter what they thought or voted for at the outset. This process has revealed so many cracks.

twatty I am quite horrified by what's come to light since I blithely voted Leave. That's why I do feel attracted by the idea of a PV, surely many folk must feel differently now? Although many folk I know are just so fed up they've 'switched off', whereas I am following and reading more and more as time goes by. I want to be informed! This event is huge, even though it's exhausting, it's a once in a lifetime thing.

Peregrina · 06/04/2019 23:23

Theresa May apparently came to my town today, to help the Local Election cause. She did that in the GE too, and the sitting Tory MP lost, so let's hope that her visitation this time produces the same effect.

PestyMachtubernahme · 06/04/2019 23:34

Remember, the event has not happened yet. This is only the prologue.

HazardGhost · 06/04/2019 23:46

crunch have you been bit by the politics bug? I've turned into one of those people that contacts their MP and the other day I was lobbying (emailing) MPs I dont even know. I have no idea what's happened to me. I feel guilty because I was never overly invested/interested before and perhaps if more people, different people, had things would be better all round.