Westminstenders: The Bill Cash Appreciation Society

[RedToothBrush]

We've had a new thread pretty much everyday for the last week or so, so I'm short on inspiration.

There haven't been too many new developments today. There have been two ministerial resignations. Both were ministers close to Boris Johnson.

We had a vote to add an extension if we still have no deal agreed at the end of next week to the Withdrawal Bill. May has said she will do this anyway; this would merely tie her hands. It passed by 5 votes. It now is fast tracked to the committee stage and third reading.

A business of the house amendment by Benn to secure a debate and Indicative Vote 3 next week failed after a speakers vote. Bercow followed convention and didn't create a majority where there was not one (though under Erskine May he is free to do the opposite at his discretion).

Corbyn has met May for talks which have been described as construction, though we have no further details though curiously Emily Thornberry put out a statement demanding a ref on whatever was decided which suggests Corbyn isn't keen on the idea. Rumours are of Schrodingers Customs Union: somehow being in a union but not a union. It can't be called a customs union. And Liam Fox has said Corbyn can't have his union. Though he may have a vested interest as he loses his job if Corbyn gets his way.

Oh and the Commons photocopier broke so no one knows what is currently supposed to be happening.

Otherwise it's been a quiet day, all things considered. Too quiet?

The EU citizens will have first dibs at the best jobs, but there is at least the chance for others

Yes, but to return to my example ... Student1 would still not have the rights Student2 has. Unless the UK retains the current system ...

Having "Does anyone work, or know people who work, for the EU institutions?"

Yes, a relative does. For about two years following the referendum, he had no idea whether he would still have a job after we left. Hugely stressful and he immediately began the process for applying for Belgian citizenship for him and his wife (their children were born in Belgium, attend school there, are very settled etc so they really don't want to return to the UK). Finally, about 6 months ago, the EU confirmed it would continue to employ him and take over paying his salary (currently paid by the UK) when we leave. No idea if that applies to all UK staff at the EU or just his department.

woman Funny how these fascist terrorists usually target strong women,
who are outnumbered by male MPs, even remainers

He planned to murder both Rosie Copper & the police officer investigating him for paedophile offences

The IRA, for example, on several occasions ordered away women companions, before shooting members of the security forces.
Obviously those were terrible crimes too, but they actually tried sometimes to avoid harming women

Fascist terrorists seem different to others, real women-haters

Well indeed, Bigchoc. And in fact my response to this was to unilaterally declare we were going outside, bung his coat and boots on and hoof him out of the backdoor. And I could hardly blame the EU for doing the same at this point.

I feel just as disenfranchised as ever, to be honest, and pretty hopeless at this stage. I took the first step towards getting an Irish passport (or at least seeing if I'd be entitled to one) but didn't take it further because it involved reopening some old wounds... I think I might have to face up to them, though. Trying to find some humour is the only thing stopping me from curling up and crying every time I read the news...!

I live for functional maths. So once more for fun:
Referendum electoral result 52% Leave with higher turnout than any recent GE
YouGov est Labour voters 65% Remain (membership is higher still)
However Labour large majority seats are concentrated in London and a few other major conurbations which were also heavily Remain.
This implies outside of these areas, in the Labour heartlands and marginals where they win and lose elections the Labour Remain % is likely to be well below 65% and in a marginal the votes which count are Not your natural voters but swing voters who are estimated to be 70% Leave (in line with estimates for Tory voters plus add in UKIP and even the minority LibDem Leavers also found here).

Connecting with my tribe following the hashtag #mustbeamarxist

No idea why anyone was obsessing over Letwin or Cooper yesterday. Govt already committed to doing what Letwin wanted and having further votes before deciding what to do if don't meet conditions for short extension (ie no need for Cooper). Given Cooper bill passing and TM commitment I see No incentive to pass WA for anyone if they can get what they want with a longer extension OR what they want is Not the WA.

Just a lot of grandstanding going on so no sympathy whatsoever for MPs.

I've no idea why leavers think leaving with no plan is better personally. It defies all logic, and they MUST know it deep down?

Lonely I think for many it is an ideology.

I remember speaking to a trump voter who has only been financially harmed by trump policies but he didn't care and spoke of taking the hit - it was the ideology the belief he has in trump.

I know a builder who is pro Brexit even though his clients are often Europeans. He wants Britain to be like it was when he was growing up he has this belief and he often brings up queuing at his gp and blames a romanian family who apparently always in front of him at the gp. I used to think he was a polite and kind man but get him talking about Brexit and it is whole other side.
I

DGR your student argument rings a bit hollow with all the victims of the "hostile" environment created by TB to justify EU FoM. My DD is currently preparing for Uni. She has 2 British parents and has spent all but 3 months in the UK but does NOT have full UK citizenship rights because she was born overseas = lots of extra paperwork and documentation.

I have long thought anyone who isn't bi-lingual from birth through parentage is on a hiding to nothing studying languages in the UK because they will always be out competed.

Not good, is it BigChoc

Steve Brine on Sky news now, rather impressive, and he, like Hammond, included PV as a way forward.

I wonder if LML would prefer PV to EU elections; as the Crosby SM LML machinery is easier to fix a referendum than an election.

Tamara Cohen has just said that Mark Sedwall's made May realised that brexit threatens the 'union'. Wonder if Brenda has had a word.

Well done Nicola. Well done NI. . Well done Plaid.

Mathanxiety re Irishborder*. I took the time to read the GOV.UK email about it and although it start snowing off quite positively about having no intention of enforcing a hard border later on I said the line

“A negotiated settlement is the only means of sustainably guaranteeing no hard border” Potentially an No Deal situation could be disastrous for this part of us. We cannot be relying on airy fairy ‘technological solutions’ that do not exist yet. The region needs stability.

Showing not snowing obviously

I wonder if the HoC and government have twigged the fact that when the UK leaves they are going to have to do ALL the work and not look over the EU's shoulders and 'copy and paste'? And they won't have a ready scapegoat.

all the victims of the "hostile" environment created by TB to justify EU FoM

What an unusual day this is.
Mark Francois quotes Jesus to defend his 'brexit'.
65% is not a majority.
And the 3 term Labour PM, apparently now created the Hostile Environment.

She has 2 British parents and has spent all but 3 months in the UK but does NOT have full UK citizenship rights because she was born overseas = lots of extra paperwork and documentation.

Who made those rules? Why, the Government in Westminster. This is where you should be directing your complaints. As for Tony Blair and the hostile environment - I think you must have meant to write TM meaning Theresa May because this was her policy. Admittedly Blair was daft enough not to utilise the provisions allowed to him to limit the flow of EU citizens as the other countries did. Guess what though, Blair has been gone from office for more than 10 years. Why has no one else implemented the rules?

What’s on today’s agenda in the HoC then?!

Peter Campbell @ petercampbell1
@AndyatAston asked if Aston Martin is less exposed to hard Brexit than others because of its luxury status.

"We're less exposed but equally pissed off"

Any legal bods know whether the NDA's and effect on public informed consent may play out for the Cabinet in a court of law?

Also pre-ref whether negligence and criminal harm can be levied at Leave for wilfully misleading the public by giving misleading facts and figures despite having the relevant facts and figures available? I think Cummings should be in the line up here as I don't believe the rest of them could plan their way out of a paper bag. I wonder how he feels having potential deaths on his hands? Probably feeds into his God complex

Pmk

.

Delurking to post this Twitter thread that is trending and worth a look.
Apologies if you've already seen it.

Thread:
Hello Mr Morgan,

I’ve just seen this tweet. I don’t know if you were out of the country at the time, but let me respectfully explain why this isn’t a fair reflection of what the referendum was about, and therefore what people "voted for"....
twitter.com/emporersnewc/status/1113547733300842497?s=21

Happy today that my MP continues to vote with her conscience and be a Tory “rebel”. Will be emailing her today to express my appreciation (am feeling slightly guilty for never voting for her!) and to ask her to keep her head up and keep going!
Am out and about a lot today so will not be watching proceedings unfold on the tv. V thankful I have this enormously informative thread to keep me updated.

If this is true, I'm honestly lost for words

Paul Waugh
@paulwaugh
Funny business at work in the voting lobbies? A minister was counted by Tory whips and then nipped back in to try and be counted twice. Eagle-eyed Labour whip Nick Smith spotted him and he was caught out, source tells me. This was on the amendment Lab won by just 9 votes...

I found this an interesting and well sourced twitter thread challenging the pro-Brexit rhetoric that a vote for Leave = a vote for No Deal: twitter.com/EmporersNewC/status/1113548697604849664

I expect that the use of NDAs is going to be a very hot political and legal topic in the medium term: there are a lot of concerns about their use generally, but am afraid I don't know if it's going to be something the Law Commission will be invited to look at. If anyone has more time than me today, it might be worth checking their website - I think there's a facility to allow members of the public to suggest areas that might need review and reform, so it may be something to share to the forum! www.lawcom.gov.uk/

The vast majority of labour members and voters are remainers

Why do people keep saying this. members - yes most likely, but voters, certainly not. This THE big issue for labour. Most of their 2017 constituency wins went leave and a clear majority of the seats they would need to swing if they were to be elected are leave.

I don't want this to be true - but it is!

I am a lurker but would like to thank red for these threads. They make more sense than most of everything else I read.

Thought you would all like this letter, from yesterday's Times:

Sir, The situation in parliament prompts me to recall an anagram of THE HOUSES OF PARLIAMENT.

It is: LOONIES FAR UP THE THAMES.
Tim Moorey
Crossword setter for The Times.

Howabout Your figures are inaccurate & also out of date.
Labour voters were and are much more pro-Remain than you claim

In the ref, Labour voters were 67% : 33% for remain; since then, they are 3:1

Nearly 90% of Labour party members would vote Remain

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/27/labour-vote-referendum-jeremy-corbyn

In the 2016 referendum, Labour voters divided 67-33% in favour of remain.

According to a recent YouGov surveyy* among more than 25,000 voters, they divide 74-26% for remain, if the 2016 referendum choice were to be rerun.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/02/most-labour-members-believe-corbyn-should-back-second-brexit-vote

If a new referendum was held, 88% of members would back remain,
both in a two-way vote against either May’s plan or no deal, or in a three-way poll between all of them.