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Brexit

Westministenders: Happy Birthday Chris Grayling!

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 31/03/2019 22:35

Yep he's an April Fool. No really he is!

Today (1st April - I'm starting the thread slightly early) is the return of Indicative Votes.

This follows the defeat of May's Deal by 286 to 344 on Friday.

The Sunday Press has been full of talk of a Cabinet Collapse with 10 Cabinet Brexiteers threatening to walk, with the support of 170 Tory MPs, if May goes for a softer Brexit or fails to leave the EU by 22nd May regardless of whether this is with a Deal or with No Deal and Remain Cabinet Members threatening to walk if May goes for No Deal.

This is in addition to May's apparent threat that the House was at its limits for the process which has been taken as meaning she is considering a GE. Which both Tory Brexiteers and Tory Remainers say they will block. The threat of a GE has largely been seen as a threat to force MPs to back her deal.

May now faces the choice she has always resisted, which on the face of it, looks like it could cause a split in the Tory Party. She will obviously do everything she can to avoid making that choice. Her solution seems to be MV4 with the Snell / Nandy Amendment, which gives parliament a say in the next phase of Brexit. This theorectically is about the Political Declaration (PD) which the Indicative Votes essentially is about.

However it needs to be stressed repeatedly that the EU have said, that they do not care about the PD and all soft Brexits (variations on May's current PD) also require the WA to pass, such is the EU's distrust in the UK. This would include the Common Market 2.0 suggestion (Boles Amendment 189-283), despite what various MPs have suggested simply because it could be used as a temporary transition by the backdoor and CM2.0 doesn't cover certain aspects of withdrawal such as the divorce settlement, long term citizens rights and fishing rights amongst others. And this is going to be a big issue when it comes to the DUP who are now leaning to a soft Brexit or even revocation.

In light of this apparent Government Nervous Breakdown John Major has raised the prospect of a temporary government of National Unity, which is difficult to envisage how that would work given the current parliamentary polarisation. Indeed Labour have ruled this possibility out.

There has also been comments made that any policy passed by Parliament stemming from Indicative Votes could be ignored by May by her using her status of PM to ask the Queen to refuse to give it Royal Ascent. Which surely would go down a storm with her Majesty to be asked to be embroiled into this political pantomine.

Voting on the Indicative Votes is due to start at 8pm - 8.30pm tomorrow with a debate before it.

The Options on the table (but yet to be selected by the Speaker) are:
A) Baron, unilateral backstop exit.

B) Baron, if no WA by then, no-deal Brexit on 12/4. 160-400

C) Clarke, permanent UK-wide customs union. 265-271

D) Boles, Common Market 2.0 (EEA+CU).
Broadly similar to motion from last week, with some changes. 189-283

^E) Kyle / Beckett, WA + PD approval subject to confirmatory PV. 268-295

F) Jones/Grieve, PV if necessary to prevent no deal. Not previously tabled.

G) Cherry, A50 revocation as default if necessary to prevent no deal.
More detailed version of last weeks motion. 184-293

H) Eustice, EFTA+EEA.
Slightly modified version from last week. 64-377

Clark and Boles amendments are the ones to watch. They have apparently gathered more support since last week. Boles CM2.0 appears to have Labour swinging support behind it, unofficially atm.

May is also under pressure to allow the Cabinet Free Votes this time on the CU vote (they abstained last week). Whether this will happen is still anyone's guess.

There is also talk of an alternative 'Custom's Partnership' idea - a fudge that would see the UK stay in parts of a customs union. This idea has been previously rejected by the EU and the Cabinet. But we know how much May loves her fudges.

Robert Peston is saying tonight that whether May and the Government fall may rest on how much support the Customs Union and her allies are desparate for it to get a parliamentary majority - particularly with support from more Conservatives (it only got 35 Tory Votes last time). This would mark a breakthrough and the first positive majority for Brexit.

If it passes, the suggestion is that MV4 will be Tuesday. Of course it remains to be seen if ERG hardliners who switched last week would continue to support her deal if she goes for a CU option and whether getting a parliamentary majority for a CU plus the Snell Amendment would be sufficient to persuade enough Labour MPs, the DUP and perhaps Tory Remainers to push it over the line.

However May going for the CU could provoke a Cabinet resignations or even splits in the party meaning that MV4 on Tuesday is somehow impossible or at least delayed.

Expect May to keep her cards to her chest about whether she will go for a CU as long as possible as a result. (Possibly NOT before a MV4).

Meanwhile it looks like there might be a storm brewing about the stripping of NI born Irish citizens of their EU citizenship, which seems to be in breech of the GFA.

And the Tory Leadership contest is in full swing. Hunt and Javid have been labelled as The TiTs (Theresa in Trousers), Johnson is styling himself as a One Nation Tory (although he is not a member of the One Nation Group within the party) who will bring sweeping tax cuts, and Grayling is saying the next leader must be a Cabinet Minister with experience and has always been a Brexiteer.

And Finally, David Allen Green raises a concern about a potential new exit day, if it changes from 12 April.

David Allen Green @ Davidallengreen
If a new exit day is not agreed until 10/11 April (ie European Council), there will be not enough time for exit day in domestic legislation to be amended in time before 12 April. It was close this time, with the shift from 29 March.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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MissMalice · 01/04/2019 22:20

Does this all increase chance of No Deal again?

tobee · 01/04/2019 22:20

They're not normal Rufus mostly arseholes

Littlespaces · 01/04/2019 22:20

Looks like a General Election to me now.

MythicalBiologicalFennel · 01/04/2019 22:21

enough was enough
Isn't that what any decent person of at least average intelligence would say? Angry

MissMalice · 01/04/2019 22:21

Good point RTB. Now even worse that we know how close some of the results were.

MaudBaileysGreenTurban · 01/04/2019 22:21

I think it must do MissMalice

God what a fucking farce.

jessicawessica · 01/04/2019 22:21

Am sure I just heard JC say that even he would go for TMs deal instead of no deal.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 01/04/2019 22:21

Fair point tobee

BaconMushroomAndScrambledEggs · 01/04/2019 22:21

Perhaps they are all in the (subsidised) bar getting pissed...

SingingBabooshkaBadly · 01/04/2019 22:21

My self-serving idiot MP voted no to everything.

RedToothBrush · 01/04/2019 22:22

Clark amendment
Ayes
Labour 237
Con 35
Ind 7
LD 1

NOES
CON 236
Lab 10
Ind 14
Green 1
Ld 5
Dup 10

Thats not good and not going anywhere with that split.

OP posts:
prettybird · 01/04/2019 22:22

Vicky Ford is a wee besom. Promulgating the trope that we predicted they would do that more numbers supported the WA ConfusedAngry

OhYouBadBadKitten · 01/04/2019 22:22

Singing, have you got the link on how they voted?

NoWordForFluffy · 01/04/2019 22:23

In the same way Labour were happy for the Tories to win the GE when there was no money left, so they had to introduce austerity, the Tories may want Labour to deal with this shit show and get the blame.

I also predict a GE in conjunction with the EP on May 23.

woman19 · 01/04/2019 22:23

@IanDunt
Quick note: MPs, like journalists, are very, very tired and quite emotional. They may not all be making the right decisions at the moment.

hobblingawayslowly · 01/04/2019 22:23

I hate to say this but we need a GE. Hoc is too split to make a decision.

BigChocFrenzy · 01/04/2019 22:24

Link to check how all the MPs voted & party split

commonsvotes.digiminster.com

RedToothBrush · 01/04/2019 22:24

Boles
Ayes
SNP 32
Con 33
Lab 185
Ind 5
Plaid 4
Ld 2

Noes
Con 228
Lab 25
Ld 4
Green 1
Ind 14
Dup 10

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FusionChefGeoff · 01/04/2019 22:25

I am really worried about a GE - theoretically I might support a party's policies but not agree with their Brexit stance - then what am I supposed to do??

If I vote for them, it will be the same as voting for Brexit.

But if I vote for a party solely on their Brexit manifesto, I might get a shit load of other policies that I disagree with??

We will all end up voting in a GE but only on 1 issue.

Otherwise known as.. a referendum Hmm

Jason118 · 01/04/2019 22:26

@FusionChefGeoff
But we get another GE in 5 yrs, so it could be worth it just once to vote for whoever has a chance of stopping Brexit?

Icantreachthepretzels · 01/04/2019 22:27

I also predict a GE in conjunction with the EP on May 23.

My worry is that she will fix a vote of no confidence to MV4 without asking for an extension to make it a my deal or no deal vote and black mail them into voting for it that way. Knowing her - she'll still lose - because why would the ERG vote with her then? But she'll still have crashed us out.

Belindabelle · 01/04/2019 22:27

Nick Boles is in my Fantasy Cabinet. I have started a separate thread if anyone would like to come and play.

Quintella · 01/04/2019 22:27

37 Tories voted for a Customs Unions

PestyMachtubernahme · 01/04/2019 22:27

How they voted commonsvotes.digiminster.com

hobblingawayslowly · 01/04/2019 22:27

I'll be voting Labour even though they are a total shit show because I believe we are more likely to get a second ref/revoke/soft brexit with a labour majority.