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Brexit

Westministenders: The DisUnited Kingdom of Remaina

953 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/03/2019 19:58

Todays News Round Up (so far):

  1. MV2.5 failed by 58 votes.
  2. Labour Rebels were not tempted by May's promises of consultation with parliament over the next phase. This is because this is not a binding promise and with a possible change of leader this is even more lacking in substance
  3. More ERG than expected switched to supporting the WA. This included leadership hopefuls Johnson and Raab. But there were still 28 hold outs plus 6 Tory Remain Rebels.
  4. Macron said that the EU would be the ones to decide the timetable for no deal if we failed to pass the WA or ask for an extension by 12th April. Thus 12th April is NOT necessarily the cliff edge we fear, though it still is no deal. (Its just a possible time delay). As far as a lengthy extension goes he would want not just EP election participation but also more in the way of a concrete way forward than we currently have though.
  5. The EUCO are meeting on the April 10th. Thus we have until then to work something out. Thats quite the ask.
  6. A series of mini deals in the event of No Deal is something the EU are firmly ruling out. And yet the myth that this will happen is still out there.
  7. No Deal would probably mean the Backstop being in effect anyway in practice, simply because its the only way to stop a hard border.
  8. The penny has dropped with the DUP over this, and they have finally abandoned the idea of a hard brexit and possibly brexit all together if it threatens NI position in the union. They would rather remain. Thus the GFA problem is at least acknowledged.
  9. The DUP did something curious in the indicative votes. They signalled where there was room for them to move, in how they voted - they revealed what they were opposed to and what they might be talked into with their abstaining
  10. There seems to be moves elsewhere to a softer brexit with more signatories to Common Market 2.0 gaining support and more vocal support for the Customs Union.
  11. Donald Tusk signalled that the EU could change the PD to a custom union relatively easily.
  12. May had a meeting earlier with ministers who are urging her to go for No Deal now
  13. May said cryptically after the vote in the commons that the process was almost beyond what the house could provide. What she meant by this isn't obvious.
  14. The problem is that any deal requires the WA to pass... the WA merely is the divorce arrangement and not the economic and political alignment aftewards. All soft Brexits require the WA.

The DUP will never support the backstop.
And Labour although they say they accept the WA will never support a blind Brexit and distrust the Tories fearing they will backtrack on any PD.
The only way to square this circle is to have a legally binding PD which looks a lot like the backstop with NI and the rUK in it.
Which the ERG would never buy into.
And the EU might not allow.

And to get an extension we'd need to pass legislation for EP elections - and its difficult to work out where May would get a majority in the HoC from to facilitate that without the government collasping in the attempt.

Thus as we move forward the stakes get higher, and without any progress on a deal the chances of both No Deal and Revoke get higher. And I don't fancy testing May's resolve to revoke - especially since that might require parliamentary approval too. Is there a majority to revoke if the alternative really is No Deal?

Parliament needs to move FAST to avoid both. Parliament isn't good at moving fast.

I also note that the DUP's political survival might well rest now with remaining. Apparently like the Conservatives, the uncertainity of Brexit has lead to a loss of confidence in the party amongst business leaders, which has led to a drop in donations. This is coupled with May's threat that No Deal would result in Direct Rule. The likes of Arlene are on the Stormont Pay Role, so this would starve them of money there. And this is all without the prospect of polling on an all Ireland referendum. The ERG hanging them out to dry, only serves to make it or the more likely.

Surely an election beckons one way or another, later this year? This is unsustainable for the DUP. And for May who has today, refused to rule one out...

Prediction: We are going to get through a lot of threads and have late nights between the 9th and 12th.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
48
BigChocFrenzy · 30/03/2019 13:06

insane Grieve's local party have passed a No Confidence motion in him
They haven*t yet proceeded to deselect him
but I don't see what can stop them

Maybe Tory Central Office ?

Problem is that Tory Central has also been partly taken over and the remaining part is intimidated / pandering to the far right takeover

BigChocFrenzy · 30/03/2019 13:09

Grieve might decide to retire, if Tory Central don't forbid any deselection moves

He's said he'd always be a Conservative,
but he could reasonably claim that the party shot off to the far right and has left him, is not the party he recognises as Conservative

GreatAuntBertha · 30/03/2019 13:10

Feeble tweet from Johnson re. Grieve

'Sad to hear about Dominic Grieve. We disagree about EU but he is a good man and a true Conservative #grieveforbeaconsfield'

Is Johnson starting to fret that if he does succeed in his dream of becoming party leader that he will be the leader of a party of swivel eyed loons, all the moderates having long since left or been driven out.

1tisILeClerc · 30/03/2019 13:13

{Problem is that Tory Central has also been partly taken over and the remaining part is intimidated / pandering to the far right takeover}

This could indicate that Bannon and others wishing to break up the EU are quite well on the way to success. They have already reduced the UK to crisis level.

wheresmymojo · 30/03/2019 13:21

Andrew Bridgen confirms he signed a letter from a group of 170 Tory MPs and Ministers calling for the UK to leave the EU without a deal.

^ This is being reported by LBC. 170?

I can't remember the number of votes in favour of no deal in the indicative votes...?

onalongsabbatical · 30/03/2019 13:27

wheresmymojo it was 160. Which makes 170 worryingly plausible that they have hoiked another ten into their camp.

onalongsabbatical · 30/03/2019 13:28

Of course not all of that original 160 was Tory was it? So not sure.

BigChocFrenzy · 30/03/2019 13:31

Bridgen is the fuckwit who thought (thinks ?) all "English people" are entitled to Irish (RoI) passports and to vote in Irish elections

Depressing if he has found another 169 fuckwits like him in the HoC

Peregrina · 30/03/2019 13:32

At the moment Grieve needs to do nothing. He is still their MP, whether they like it or not. Cameron's predecessor in Witney crossed the floor to join New Labour. It was amusing to see such a true blue Tory area represented by a splash of red. It didn't last, he was deselected and Cameron duly got in.

BigChocFrenzy · 30/03/2019 13:36

Grieve obviously stays an MP until the next GE - when he likely loses his seat if he contests it as a Tigger or Indie

He won't lose the Tory whip unless he decides he has nothing to lose and rebels much more openly

BigChocFrenzy · 30/03/2019 13:40

Tom Watson's Future Britain Group is a party within the Labour party, like the Momentum group that it counters
He has 130 MPs, which is a brilliant nucleus

Unfortunately, there isn't a sufficiently large group of Tory MPs brave / moderate enough to form the Tory equivalent

Interesting look at Watson:

https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/other/kevin-maguire-tom-watson-labour-deputy-corbyn-profile-interview

howabout · 30/03/2019 13:42

onalongsabbatical the other 10 are Cabinet Members who abstained in the Indicative votes last week.

170 then starts to look like the high water mark for No Deal which makes the choice WA via MV 4 (plus PV / GE endorsement) or Revoke ??

Peregrina · 30/03/2019 13:47

Did the SI which changed the date of leaving the EU pass, or are we in a legal limbo with UK out of step with International law? It won't matter I suppose, until something goes wrong.

onalongsabbatical · 30/03/2019 13:48

howabout thank you, that makes sense, I wasn't aware (I'd heard but not fully taken it in) that the cabinet were abstaining on the IVs.
I agree with your conclusion as to likely outcome.

onalongsabbatical · 30/03/2019 13:50

Grieve fighting back - good man. The quiet people rise up sooner or later. www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/30/grieve-accuses-ex-ukip-opponent-of-insurgency-after-confidence-vote-loss

TheABC · 30/03/2019 13:54

Is anyone else looking at the front page of the Telegraph and going WTF??

What we interpret as a likely no-deal, they think is no-brexit.

I would really like them to be right, but it feels like they inhabit a different universe.

prettybird · 30/03/2019 13:55

The SI to change the date we leave did pass (both HoC and HoL).

Iirc, it has 2 dates in it: 12 April or 22 May "as the case may be". So it may still need to be changed again Shock

DarlingNikita · 30/03/2019 14:02

Thanks Red. It's both sad and alarming about Dominic Grieve.

BigChocFrenzy · 30/03/2019 14:12

The SI that was passed

Westministenders: The DisUnited Kingdom of Remaina
pepinana · 30/03/2019 14:14

Pmk

pepinana · 30/03/2019 14:14

It seems to me that those dreading no deal think it will be no deal and those dreading no brexit think it will be no brexit.

SingingBabooshkaBadly · 30/03/2019 14:18

It seems to me that those dreading no deal think it will be no deal and those dreading no brexit think it will be no brexit.

And Remainers call the BBC the Brexit Broadcasting Corporation and Leavers call it the Brussels Broadcasting Corporation.

prettybird · 30/03/2019 14:23

I just call it the *state broadcaster^ now Wink

howabout · 30/03/2019 14:24

Just double checked the Institute of Government graphic on the Indicative votes. The 160 included 3 Labour (don't know who?) to add to the 170 Tory letter tally.

howabout · 30/03/2019 14:27

Certainly a state pretty but not one I recognise. Grin