If we cancel article 50 and stay in Europe then what?

[Cantdoright1]

Surely if the public vote for something and it doesn't happen because parliament don't agree with it so won't let it happen, then we no longer live in a democracy. No point voting ever again as parliament can do what they like with the result. I don't understand why people want is to stay in Europe just because the process of leaving has been so badly handled by those in power. Or do people just accept that when the going gets tough we give up on democracy?

What happens when remainers vote for something they care about but it never happens because the government don't want it to? If we remain were all shafted on any future votes.

I don't know how people can be so fixated on remaining that they are willing to ignore the impacts of remaining on democracy, and the far reaching consequences - much bigger ones than leaving or staying in the EU. There is much more to this now than remain or leave, so much more is at stake.

We accept that people were fed a pack of lies promising them a mythical scenario that was impossible to achieve, draw a line under it and turn our attention to the many many political issues in this country that need dealing with that are entirely the responsibility of the UK government and nothing to do with the EU?

Or do we have to crash out and suffer irreparable damage before we realise that we were fed a pack of lies promising us unicorns and rainbows and that the consequent economic damage will put us in a worse position to be able to deal with our domestic issues?

When you give people a simple option on a very complicated issue, it's never going to be easy. Especially when one option is really ambiguous and encompasses several sub options.

Also, no vote is binding forever, and true democracy allows for change of mind. Otherwise, we'd never have had the 2016 vote and the government would remain the same forever.

Sorry why is not being able to implement the contradictory demands of an Advisory Referendum, no longer living in a democracy? I haven't yet heard of any talk of not holding General Elections in future, and at present much of the country is gearing up for Local Elections at the beginning of May. In my book that's democracy.

We already opened Pandora’s box, retracting now is fantasy! Let’s say we remain, any future EU move the leavers would kick off and demand another vote. The tories would be done for, being the party in power that revoked the people’s decision- it’s a slippery slope

Remember all those general election manifesto pledges which are the basis on which many governments are voted in? Many get dropped when it turns out they won’t work.

We live in a representative democracy not a direct democracy do not conflate the two. However, what happens now may set a precedent that will eventually embed direct democracy into our constitution.

{Surely if the public vote for something and it doesn't happen because parliament don't agree with it so won't let it happen, then we no longer live in a democracy.}

It hasn't happened yet partly because no one actually knows what a 'Brexit' looks like and it has taken 3 years and still no one knows.
If you vote for a cup of coffee you know pretty much what to expect. 17.4 million versions of Brexit takes mote organising.
The fact that there are no real, tangible 'up' sides to leaving doesn't help either.

The tories would be done for,

A bonus in my book and may happen whether we crash out, manage to come to a CU/SM agreement or revoke.

Referendums are rare so I can't see this situation happening very often in our lifetime. Perhaps more thought will be given to what the public is asked to vote on, and how campaigns are led in future as a result.

I sincerely hope the Tories are finished forever too!

But surely Rupert Murdoch decides who gets into power, so we don’t really get a say at elections anyway

I don't think it'll happen so I wouldn't worry, but my feeling is that if you change the status quo you need a proper plan to do it. The default is naturally going to be the way things are now. I voted to change our voting system to proportional representation a few years back because I thought it would work better than our present system. The vote to change things lost and I accepted that. I think if it had won and then turned out to be totally impractical I would have accepted that too. I think first past the post is stupid but at least it's not unknown and stupid.

If you vote for a cup of coffee you know pretty much what to expect. I'd be expecting filter coffee, black no sugar, I think I've 3 or 4 friends who have it that way. DP would expect the same but with milk and sugar, MIL too but with a sweetener instead of sugar. One friend prefers instant, black with 3 sugars, another always makes hers with hot milk and instant.

I agree with your point but even coffee isn't really as simple as yes/no - we always define the parameters.

Im sure there are stats to prove whichever way you count the votes in either democratic system more people voted leave than remain. I also agree the press has alot to answer for. I believe some of the leave voters do actually have their own teeth and a further education not as they have been portrayed in the press.

So next general election the parties promise all sorts, one party is elected but doesn't deliver the promises so we demand to vote again immediately because of this? And on and on we go.

I realise there are alot of issues around the way the referendum was put to the people and the way the choices had little information behind them. But that's done now. We are where we are. Shouldn't we all be trying to leave Europe in the smoothest manner possible to honour our democratic system. There are so many positives to leaving Europe too. If only the press would highlight some of them we wouldn't all be so trained to think negatively about leaving.

I've voted for a party that didn't win an election before and never had a hissy fit about it and demanded we all vote again.

Parliament have revolted against the people and this has got much deeper implications in my eyes that remain or leave.

There are so many positives to leaving Europe too. If only the press would highlight some of them we wouldn't all be so trained to think negatively about leaving.

That's good to hear. Could you list some of them? A lot of people would love to be put at ease about it all.

Trust is already eroded. Leavers don’t trust the government as they are invariably not getting the Brexit they wanted. Remainers have lost trust as they don’t believe that government are putting the countries interests first.

That’s already happened and will take time to build back up irrespective of what happens next.

If everyone is so keen on sticking to the letter of democracy all of a sudden then let’s put the available options on the table for the people to decide. Brexit was a concept when the referendum was called and now it is a clearer with a withdrawal agreement - see if this is what people want.

“So next general election the parties promise all sorts, one party is elected but doesn't deliver the promises”

This literally happens every general election!

{I've voted for a party that didn't win an election before and never had a hissy fit about it and demanded we all vote again. }
If the referendum hadn't been 'influenced' by illegal use of 'external' funds then the result would have been closer to a 'tie'.
If those promoting Leave hadn't told so many blatant lies that might have been good too.

{There are so many positives to leaving Europe too}

You say there are MANY positives, after 3 years of thinking, try naming a few, things that could actually happen.

Please list the Brexit positives.

@Cantdoright1 every post you write demonstrates your profound lack of understanding in relation to British democracy.

To 'honour' our democratic system we should educate ourselves.

We are a representative democracy - parliament does makes decisions that don't correlate to the exact will of the British people. Abolishing the death penalty, legalising abortion and homosexuality are significant examples.

Parliament absolutely does not follow the direct will of the people - we are not a direct democracy.

Stop making points that show you have a total lack of understanding of our constitution.

We do 'vote again' frequently.

Shouldn't we all be trying to leave Europe

No - opposition is vital to any democratic system and to imply otherwise, yet again, demonstrates your profound lack of understanding of how our democracy works.

I get the impression you aren't entirely clear about how our parliamentary democracy works.

@Cantdoright1
I fully agree with you

How can you say that the press have not highlighted the positive aspects of leaving Europe? The Daily Mail, the express, The Sun, The Telegraph are all rabidly pro leave. They problem is that they cant think of anything positive to say, so have had to resort to jingoistic hate speech. They wouldn't have got many takers if they had said 'Our multi millionaire owners will make a shit ton more money if we leave Europe and basically do what we like without having to bother with boring rules and regulations that protect workers, consumers, food hygiene and animal welfare standards.'

Not everyone who was affected was given a vote. Brits abroad. Lomg term working EU citizens here with families.

Undemocratic.

People weren't told what they were voting for.

Undemocratic.

The Northern Irish didnt vote to be pawns in a fucking scary game with their borders.

Undemocratic.

We had illegal spending.
Undemocratic.

Lies being spread on FB and twitter.

Undemocratic.

Fuck your weak ass version of democracy that only works the way you want it to.

We'll stay in Europe regardless... we're not changing continents

Also people voted voted for parliamentary sovereignity but seem to really be offended by the idea that parliament is sovereign and doesnt have to do what Joe from the pub says.