Westminstenders: Pragmatism versus Purity

[RedToothBrush]

There is one question for the HoC in the next week and that's will you persue pragmatism or purity?

May looks as if she is being sidelined after a backbench withdrawal of support, the DUPs withdrawal of support and an omminous silence eminenating from the Cabinet.

Her speech on Thursday where she pitted the people against parliament has been her last mistake. She's now a danger to the country's stability and the safety of MPs.

The priority for the week is to pass the SI to change the UK exit date from 29th March to the EU's new terms.

After that, with May's deal stuffed due to lack of support and a Bercow ruling it looks like we are facing some sort of indicative free vote. This seems to be being supported by ministers in government regardless of leave or remain.

The prospect of a Tory Leader Election contest looms. It remains to seen if that can happen in the next three weeks with so much else at stake. But this is the Tory party.

The penny seems to be finally dropping about the reality of leaving the EU and how we leave the EU. A week before we were due to go. The incompetence of Parliament is laid bare in all its glorious full scale.

Alexa: "I'm sorry, I didn't understand the word 'government'..."

Typical

But we know that not only does she know the UK is suffering and will continue to do so. We know she wants this. For which there really are no words or sentiments.

When I read the report of TM saying the people voted for pain I thought about that question on the test for depression ‘do you have thoughts of causing harm to yourself or others?’. Mentioned this in passing to DH’s Parkinson’s specialist. She was firmly of the opinion that TM needs to be urgently subjected to the Folstein Mini-Mental examination. She believes she’s displaying signs of early dementia.

At Chequers today

Boris Johnson
Jacob Rees Mogg (plus one)
Steve Baker (rabid ERGer)
Dominic Raab (ex Brexit minister)
Damian Green
David Davis (another ex brexit minister)
Iain Duncan Smith
Gavin Barwell (special advisor)
PM (probably TM but really, who knows)
Chief Whip (Julian Smith)
Brandon Lewis
Steve Barclay
Alistair Burt (The ‘wrong Conservatives’ Steve? The ‘wrong Conservatives ‘? Oh dear. Not ‘my colleagues with principled views, like mine, only different’ but just the ‘wrong Conservatives’. How very disappointing. And worrying.)
Michael Gove
David Lidington

Just the line-up make me think no-deal.

So, what do we think tomorrow will bring??

I think part of the problem at the State Broadcaster is the editors.

Look for example at the name of the link here: EU wins some Brexit breathing space

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47669197 - scroll half way down,

That is NOT Katya Adler (who wrote the piece)'s message: the actual heading was Brexit: EU agrees breathing space for UK - a somewhat different impression

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-47663212

It's quite sad when the scales fall from your eyes: I learnt that during the Indyref when I watched Mark Carney talk about whether or not Scotland could use the £ and the risks for the Scottish economy, including the Q&A session. I also read the BoE paper. What is said was not what was reported.

I also watched Nick Robinson, just before the Indyref, on the main news, say that he'd asked Alex Salmond a question and that he hadn't answered. Again, I'd been watching the press conference, and he had answered it, in detail - but just not with the answer that Nick Robinson had wanted. The BBC Trust did not accept the many complaint as even though it gave an inaccurate impression, there was no "intentional" bias, just "professional" judgement :

The BBC Trust and Editorial Complaints Unit (ECU) have thrown out a series of complaints about the incident, in which Robinson claimed on a news bulletin that Salmond had failed to answer a question about banks despite unedited footage of the event later showing Salmond deliver a response lasting several minutes.

The news report was broadcast by the BBC on 11 September 2014, a week before the referendum vote. The ECU conceded that the report gave an inaccurate impression but concluded that it was not intentional bias.

According to the BBC Trust, Robinson's claim was made on the basis of "professional judgement" and "did not in itself imply bias".

www.commonspace.scot/articles/2722/bbc-verdict-on-nick-robinson-indyref-complaints-no-bias-here

It means that I now never trust anything he says

I reckon Moggs were wearing seatbelts.
Thank you to this thread. I've been doing schizz all day & did not realise Political PowWow was happening.

@Holidayshopping just wondering that myself. I've not kept up today as l the speculation and twitter copy and paste posts get me stressed. I've started filtering a lot of stuff out now that it's getting to crunch time and just focusing on the actual news. It's helping me stay calmer.

Songsofexperience, I think you are right about a TM successor from the ERG unpicking the WA over the next few years, and that the battle is really in the nuts and bolts of future trade agreements with the EU.

I think you are wrong about R-M, Johnson or Gove letting NI quietly slide out of the UK, whether any of them are PM or sniping from the back benches or from the Cabinet table. I think Gove, Johnson* and Rees-Mogg are Unionists and will drag NI along with the rest of the UK to Singapore on Thames. This will involve repudiation of the GFA.

• Johnson obv has no principles but still a threat to the GFA.

I anticipate a greater degree of open alliance between the DUP and the ERG Tories as they push for Singapore on Thames, some realignment of Tories/Labour as non-Singapore, non Libertarian Tories find common cause with non-Marxist Labour members and LDs.

Otoh the DUP may end up losing everything as NI will be terribly affected by Brexit. What remains to be seen is whether the transformation of the UK into a libertarian, money launderers' paradise can happen before the GFA is thrown overboard. Also TBA is whether Republican paramilitary action will start up again, with renewed financial and moral support from the US arising from the very obvious bad faith of the Tories when it comes to the GFA.

Ireland could end up reunited, therefore, but the possibility of more violence in that process is now moderate to high, given the hatred of the GFA and preference for the DUP of May, Rees-Mogg, and Gove, and given the possibility of economic collapse in NI due to Brexit.

TM is 62 ish I'm 65 in a lot of pain and sometimes forget things or have moments of shortness of temper, look vacant, sometimes people talk to me and I don't acknowledge them as I'm in a world of my own etc. I do not have early onset dementia I'm just in constant pain. TM has type 1 diabetes and is under huge stress ( most of it her own fault) it is not surprising she has bad moments.( apart for being completely useless as a leader) It does not mean she has early onset dementia.

Look closely - Rees-Mogg Jr has a seatbelt on. It's hard to see it against his tweedy clothing.

It sounds like a leap to suggest early onset dementia

She’s made a comment off the cuff about pain - it says more about seeing people as numbers. But I reckon most would in that position l.

Just had a chat with friend who has relative's in N.I. army is already on standby for no deal brexit.......

Seeing that list makes me feel a bit ill

I wonder what the people who didn’t get the summons feel like

Daydreaming that May has gone batty and has invited them for a shoot...she intends to mount them in the oak panelled dining room as a talking point next time any EU president comes to visit.
One can dream

I've not seen any evidence with May but I do see symptoms with Trump (and I watched my mother go through and die from a head-injury induced early onset dementia ) . Look at his simplistic vocabulary and speech patterns (very reminiscent of my previously articulate mother), compared to clips of him as little as 10 years ago, and his dislike of slopes (remember the hand holding incident with May ) - another symptom .

GP friend thinks early stages of vascular dementia: scary if true when that person has control of the Big Red Button

SandAndSnow you ask what I mean by 'nation-building'. Sorry to fling a pompous phrase in, without explaining what I mean! You've made me think about it.

I think I mean that we need to build a majority consensus around what we think we should be as a country - what we should believe in.

Maybe there needs to be a written constitution for this; I don't know. I believe we're quite unusual in not having one?

So I'd like to see our leader communicating with the people about what they believe is good for the country, and taking feedback but also consulting with and taking evidence from experts, which then feeds into actions and policy-making.
Do we want a electoral system which more fairly and proportionally represents the electorate?
Do we want a state health service?
Do we want some immigration?
Do we want to be part of a regional trading bloc, but also share values with them?
How can we foster unity within the country? Value all our citizens? Nurture and encourage the young? Encourage women and minorities? And importantly, send frequent messages that this is what we hold to be important.

I remember David Cameron talking about the new law about same-sex marriage and thinking this is refreshing and real. He said something about "enabling those who love each other to get married whatever their sexuality”. I believe leaders do need to take positions and explain them.

I think Jacinda Ardern is a good example of a leader who seems to sends positive messages. TM's messages all seem punitive and discouraging.

Here's an article I just found which seems interesting about her. It says she has a 'natural empathy' which empowers her.

Basically I think I'm making a plea for humanity. Precious little of that around these parts lately.

www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/brexit-britain-needs-a-leader-like-jacinda-ardern-not-theresa-may-susan-dalgety-1-4894214

TM is 62 ish I'm 65 in a lot of pain and sometimes forget things or have moments of shortness of temper, look vacant, sometimes people talk to me and I don't acknowledge them as I'm in a world of my own etc. I do not have early onset dementia I'm just in constant pain. TM has type 1 diabetes and is under huge stress ( most of it her own fault) it is not surprising she has bad moments.( apart for being completely useless as a leader) It does not mean she has early onset dementia

No Sos of course it doesn’t. The consultant was talking about some very specific indicators she’s recognised. She is a specialist in neurological conditions. She hasn’t met her in person so of course she could very well be wrong but based on what she’s seen she felt she should be tested.

It sounds like a leap to suggest early onset dementia
She’s made a comment off the cuff about pain

I brought up the comment about pain which led on to the conversation about dementia but the pain comment wasn’t what she was basing it on.

There may be absolutely nothing in it , you’re right. I probably shouldn’t have mentioned it...

I read a comparison between the two choices of venue yesterday for Labour leaders.

Jeremy Corbyn - Morecombe
Tom Watson - & Wise

I've not seen any evidence with May but I do see symptoms with Trump

We had the Trump conversation too Prettybird! That one really is scary.

So sorry to hear about your mother. I went through it with my father, though he was much older. It’s about the cruellest illness I’ve witnessed.

amp.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/b49csk/the_ft_the_brexit_farce_is_about_to_turn_to/?__twitter_impression=true
The FT article that was paywalled, here on Reddit.

Do I Have The Right? | Genesis of the Daleks | Doctor Who

Not that this can be related to the current political situation

Hester wrt nation building; I think we need to relocate our moral compass too.

I don't agree with everything in this article but it contains interesting food for thought.

I think it was BCF who mentioned yesterday/day before about Thatcher going on to develop dementia and possibly having some early signs while still in office.

The same for May wouldn't be out the realms of probability.

Mrs Thatcher lost her previous fine political judgement in the last couple of years of her premiership
and I thought it likely that was the very earliest effects of dementia

Not affecting normal daily life, but just the very highest intellectual demands
A PM with very radical policies runs a fine line between catastrophe and triumph, so needs impeccable judgement and to be at their peak