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Brexit

Westminstenders: Flextension

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 21/03/2019 22:37

Just wrote an intro and wiped it. So this is as quick as I can sum up.

EU response is extension to 22nd May if May passes her deal by 29th March

Or an unconditional extension to 12 April which could be extended with a plan and understanding to take part in EU elections.

This isn't what may wanted. It gives her less time and leverage

It opens up the possibility of her being ousted as PM in the next couple of days. Graham Brady asked her to quit on Monday. Remain Cabinet ministers are threatening to quit if May whips a vote to support no deal.

The talk is May has indeed flipped to supporting no deal with many think she's pretty much gone full on Colonel Kurtz.

The EU are in effect supporting parliamentary sovereignty and are being incredibly reasonable.

May now has to decide whether to accept.

The whole situation looks explosive and likely that one half of the cabinet or the other are on the brink of walking. And May's power is so shattered.

However she remains the gatekeeper and as it stands if she's hell bent on no deal, it will be extremely difficult for Parliament to prevent that.

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lonelyplanetmum · 22/03/2019 11:55

Indicative votes =votes by MPs on a series of non-binding resolutions. They are a means of ascertaining the will of the House of Commons on different options.

On this occasion maybe Single market and customs union membership

DarlingNikita · 22/03/2019 11:57

PMK. Thanks Red.

SparklySneakers · 22/03/2019 11:58

@MissInnocentFace i suspect it's a never ending saga

GroovieGazelloo · 22/03/2019 11:59

Linking the explanation on indicative votes to Brexit:
www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/indicative-votes

NoMoreMonkeysJumpingOnTheBed · 22/03/2019 12:05

Something to lighten the mood

www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/the-brexiters-guide-to-pretending-youre-not-bricking-yourself-20190322183850

phpolly · 22/03/2019 12:07

Just catching up on the thread. NoWord thank you for this:

Whether Bercow says it's a substantial change is up to him. However, in my opinion, a change of deadline really isn't substantial as it doesn't go to the content of the WA, just the date of acceptance.

This is the question I've been asking since earlier this week: what might qualify as enough of a "change" to the WA to persuade Bercow to hold MV3

grannycake · 22/03/2019 12:07

Petition now showing 3 million plus

GeistohneGrenzen · 22/03/2019 12:10

PMK

Songsofexperience · 22/03/2019 12:10

Yay!
Sod the 17m goal- aim for 25!

SusanWalker · 22/03/2019 12:12

I want it to reach 17.5 million just to see Leadsom's face.

RedToothBrush · 22/03/2019 12:17

Carl Gardner @ carlgardner
I'm still worried about why the government hasn't introduced legislation clearly empowering the PM to agree an a50 extension. I think it's needed to ensure there simply can't be a legal challenge to the extension.

I'm not saying a challenge would succeed. HMG has decent arguments that might well win the day. But the challengers would also have decent arguments and (a) might even win; (b) could destabilise policy just by challenging. HMG should exclude the risk.

The arguments would mirror Gina Miller's. They'd say prerogative extension would frustrate the EU (Withdrawal) Act 2018 and would change the constitution temporarily, so going beyond the scope of prerogative. They'd say no clear words in the 2018 Act preserved this prerogative.

The risk of these arguments succeeding and "invalidating" the extension may not be big, but the consequences would be huge. There is some level of risk that the courts could rule that (and/or have refer to the ECJ the question whether) the UK had already crashed out.

This risk can be eliminated by a short Act giving clear statutory power to the PM to agree an extension. So why aren't they doing it?

Well, government lawyers might disagree with me, and think there's nothing to see here. "This is fine". But I doubt it. I was a government lawyer and think like one. I'd be willing to bet government lawyers have advised introducing a bill to avoid the risk.

Especially given what happened in the Gina Miller case. Defending prerogative in the Supreme Court once against creative legal arguments by campaigners may be regarded as a misfortune. But what would Lady Bracknell think if government lawyers weren't warning of a sequel?

I wonder whether the Law Officers have been asked to advise on the question. Traditionally ministers regard themselves as bound to act in accordance with such advice. So if no Bill is tabled, then either Cox hasn't been asked, or else he's advised the risk is acceptable.

One reason you might decide not to ask for Law Officers' advice is if you fear their answer. I suppose it's possible that some perceived political downside might mean ministers prefer to live with the risk rather than legislate, and so don't want to be bound by Cox's view.

They might also simply think by this point "Enough Geoffrey Cox already".

A further possibility is that government is in such crisis, with ministers and civil servants under such pressure of events, that this point has simply been lost sight of. There may be a government legal Cassandra who occasionally reminds everyone of this point but is ignored.

I'd better say for the avoidance of doubt that any resemblance to actual government lawyers named Cassandra is purely coincidental.

Oh Ffs. This is just a barrel of fucking laughs isn't it?

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1tisILeClerc · 22/03/2019 12:18

So there is a massive problem for the UK to solve and the HoC are still arguing whether they should use blue or green coloured paper to write the notes on, rather than tackling the problem.

EweSurname · 22/03/2019 12:19

3 million!

SingingBabooshkaBadly · 22/03/2019 12:19

Just bumped into DH’s Parkinson’s specialist ahead of his appointment. She is very excited about the petition and animated about ‘us beating this nonsense’. A lot of groundbreaking pan European PD research she’s involved in is currently in jeopardy.

Icannotremembee I suspect my in laws have developed a similar constitution to your DH. Not sure I’ll survive those sausages though...

LonelyTiredandLow · 22/03/2019 12:20

Sorry feel like I keep missing vital bits. Has TM amended WA with the extension date? Is that the amendment?

Also if legislation isn't 'done' in time for Friday (for WAIB) is it accepted in HoC that we cannot just drop out? (Remainer friend has said that because EU gave us the extension this means we go onto that date automatically, but I am struggling to understand if legislation meaning we need an extension trumps the A50 lodged in Parliament, especially as EU have confirmed the new extension date)? Does that make sense to anyone?

LonelyTiredandLow · 22/03/2019 12:21

Ah sorry Red - I hadn't refreshed and your last post clarified most of it!

SingingBabooshkaBadly · 22/03/2019 12:22

icannotremember sorry, fat fingers. Also responsible for my earlier Darren Brown rather than Derran. I’m sure Darren Brown, whoever he is, is also a perfectly nice man but possibly less useful up against Paul McKenna.

EweSurname · 22/03/2019 12:24

It’s not letting me copy them across but this was interesting

mobile.twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/1109059614123933696

RedToothBrush · 22/03/2019 12:26

Honestly I genuinely do not know why we are even still talking about MVIII.

It's plain to everyone in the HoC from this mornings session, that there is absolutely no way it will pass. Even Kwertangs replies pretty much said in the tone he used, that he recognised this and after we'd gone through the pointless spectacle of MVIII merely cos May doesn't want to back down from it, we'd get down to the proper business of looking at alternatives. He wasn't exactly convincing in his support for holding MV3 even though he supported May's deal in principle.

It's just a massive time waste for the PM's ego, and to make her look like a fucking victim of Parliament. Its entirely vanity and its deliberately about pitching parliament against the public for May's personal political points scoring agenda. Its like all the vindictive, costly and nasty appeals she point in whilst at the home office against decisions she simply didn't like even though it was blindly obvious legally she had no leg to stand on.

And that, in the current political climate, is divisive and down right dangerous. To be blunt about it. Its just giving action to her attack on Parliament from the other night. The one she rowed back from last night (but didn't apologise for) and the one the HoC is still demanding she explain.

It's almost as if she is trying to incite the far right in this country, just as a fascist dictator might. Its most definitely trying to challenge Erdogan.

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LonelyTiredandLow · 22/03/2019 12:28

Just back to say Cable is going to be the one who gets grief from Leavers for quoting the PM on the "pain". They simply won't believe it and say it is Remain Propaganda.

My head hurts that they are like this. It's like arguing with an anti-vaxxer.

I just know that the state broadcaster (Wink pretty) is putting out info this week just so the govt can say "we did warn you, you must have just not listened!" when they start being angry. How do we have such huge swathes of the country not willing to even slightly understand how much things are about to change for them? My leaver friend and her husband are both teachers in Kent. They must have been warned about this?

Littlespaces · 22/03/2019 12:35

It's like arguing with an anti-vaxxer.

Yes!

2beesornot2beesthatisthehoney · 22/03/2019 12:35

I wish I could be as articulate as you when I get angry Red

Littlespaces · 22/03/2019 12:37

I'm just considering displaying my placard, balloon and EU flag across the kitchen for family visit today.

MaudBaileysGreenTurban · 22/03/2019 12:37

RollOuttheIzal 17h ago

570
571
If, or When…

If you can keep down chlorinated chicken
And hold your bowels from hormone-riddled beef
If rat shit in your cornflakes doesn’t faze you
You’ll suck it up through grit-filled English teeth.
When doctored food makes you a little queasy
And leaves you retching for a magic pill
Unless your unearned income’s free and easy
Your chance of remedy is less than nil.

When Liam Fox the disgraced former doctor
Bends England’s butt for corporate USA
Atlantic Bridge will profit from the sell-off:
Our NHS gunned down on Brexit day.
When dear old gran can’t walk without her hip done
You’ll gladly bow and scrape to pay the price
So Eton’s finest, Farage, Raab and Rees Mogg
Can make a tidy killing from her life.

When work dries up because there is no market
And all your new free time gives you the blues
When tins of spam are too much for your pocket
Just plant some turnips - English through and through.
If leaving Europe wins a true-blue passport
You’ll whip it out and wave it down the dole
And even though the planes to Spain are grounded
You’re English, man, and what’s more, in control

From BTL on Marina Hyde's Guardian column.

LouiseCollins28 · 22/03/2019 12:39

Who said this "they voted for pain" line please? Vince Cable is quoted as saying it. However, she suggests that the Prime Minister said it, which I seriously, seriously doubt.

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