Brace for Brexit

[tilder]

I am a firm remainer and am pretty angry tbo. Feel disenfranchised and embarrassed about my country.

However. We have been taking steps to try and protect our family from Brexit fallout. We aren't stockpiling food or water (maybe some food items) but have done the following:

Made sure we have a few months of prescription medicines.
Several boxes ibuprofen and paracetamol.
Employed an accountant to ensure we only pay the tax we have to.
I have not moved jobs (despite a pay rise offer).
Moved our mortgage early to a 5 year fixed deal.
Managed pensions to limit uk investment.
Moved what savings we have to a non UK bank and out of premium bonds.

It's depressing and uncomfortable. I feel some of the above is a betrayal of my country. But then again, not sure I want to contribute anymore.

Is it just us? Is there more we could or should do?

Well I hope you don't pass yourself off as someone who knows what the UK is thinking right now. You need to spend less time pontificating and more time listening.

A shambles all round. Thankfully I do not live or Work in the UK or the EU.

😂Bully for you!

(FYI the UK is still part of the EU)

Not true that reunification isn't what a majority of the people of north of Ireland want. At least, not in no deal or other hard Brexit scenario... in the latest poll, in the event of border infrastructure:
56% -united Ireland
40% - stay in the UK
4% - don't know

That 56% included a lot of people not from Catholic backgrounds, BTW.

@Somerville , unless a properly conducted official poll says otherwise, the official position is to keep NI in the UK because that is what the majority want. I agree it is only a matter of time in terms of demographics. However, while people in Ireland might theoretically want unification, the cost and likely battles over it make them think twice.

Well I hope you don't pass yourself off as someone who knows what the UK is thinking right now

General expat view of those who originate from outside the EU is that EU was okay when it consisted of Countries of similar economic strength, but when it was expanded in large numbers to much weaker economies like Greece and Eastern Europe that is when it all went wrong.

And some expats (that is , people who aren't you) think it's a little bit more complicated than that.
But if you have been elected The Voice of All Expats, I must have missed that.

General expat view of those who originate from outside the EU is that EU was okay when it consisted of Countries of similar economic strength, but when it was expanded in large numbers to much weaker economies like Greece and Eastern Europe that is when it all went wrong.

I disagree. I don’t think there is a ‘general expat view’ for those of us from outside the EU. We are all individuals with our own experiences, thoughts and beliefs

{but when it was expanded in large numbers to much weaker economies like Greece and Eastern Europe that is when it all went wrong.}
With the irony that the UK was one pushing for greater expansion.

"The Secretary of State shall exercise the power under paragraph 1 (border poll) if at any time it appears likely to him that a majority of those voting would express a wish that Northern Ireland should cease to be part of the United Kingdom and form part of a united Ireland."

That's the situation bellini.
And it's very clear from the considerable polling that the majority of those in the north would like to remain in both the EU and as part of the UK, but that if they're forcibly removed from the EU they would rather reunify with Ireland.
Hence why a Brexit without backstop (whether no-deal or some kind of other deal) will necessitate a border poll, undeer the GFA.

think it's a little bit more complicated than that

Many ask the same question which is:

"How does a strong Country stand to gain by joining forces with a much weaker Country"

Some make the analogy;

"Would someone who has £1 million open a joint account with someone who has £1? A good deal for the person who has £1, but a bad deal for the person who has £1 million"

@Somerville . Thanks but I know this. If the DUP has any sense, they would rush to embrace the backstop because it buys them more time to stay in the Union. But the start of that last sentence explains things pretty well.

@MissedTheBoatAgain , I thought that Leavers found analogies "triggering" . Or is that only when they haven't got anything useful to say?

thought that Leavers found analogies "triggering" . Or is that only when they haven't got anything useful to say

Analogy was made by my Expat friends who are from outside the EU and did not vote. Hence they are neither Leavers nor Remainers.

If they didn't vote their opinion is irrelevant.

There are lots of faults with the DUP, but not having sense isn't one of them I'd level, actually. It can look that way, but with the way the birth rates are going, it is inevitable, Brexit or not, that there will be a border poll eventually, under the GFA. So they're rolling the dice on managing to destroy the GFA through Brexit. I'm hoping they've miscalulated, because there are plenty of leave-supporters, like MissedTheBoatAgain seems to be, who would rather gain greater separation from EU than keep NI as part of the UK. (Makes me feel rather sorry for Loyalists, TBH.)
It's all on a knife edge, like the rest of this political chaos over Brexit.
But personally I don't agree with countering the argument against "we should enact a hard Brexit and let NI reunify with ROI" with "the people of NI don't want that" or "the NI secretary can't", because in a hard Brexit scenario there is evidence that we do want that, and for as long as the GFA is intact, the NI secretary can (and indeed must) make it happen.
Looking at it dispassionately, the main reason it would be so bad for the UK itself, if they cut NI adrift, would be that Scotland would also then quickly leave the union.
Many of us have been saying for several years (can't remember but think we may have discussed this before Bellini and both agreed on this point) that if the English&Welsh fully leave the European Union, they'll lose their UK union in the process. All of the current fallout that inspired this thread is caused by Westminster trying to find a way to leave EU without shaking the UK and it doesn't exist.

If they didn't vote their opinion is irrelevant

If UK wants to trade with the rest of the World outside the EU maybe the opinion of those that are from outside the EU is worth listening to?

Listen to them by all means but they aren't UK tax payers in the UK so their usefulness to the debate on how we run our country is limited.

I don't understand the analogy.

And not everything is about money.

Strong countries do stand to gain a lot when they support weaker countries. It's not just about giving a weak country your million pounds and getting nothing in return.

The intention of the expansion of the EU was to bring poorer countries into the fold of western democracy. And to encourage a growth in that democracy amongst people who had lived under communist rule for decades.

Investing in those poorer countries is an investment in the security, stability and prosperity of Europe in the future. It is not an equal relationship in the way you suggest as they don't have full access to the 1 million pound pot. Their financial gain is not that significant.

The Poles who are feeling unwelcome in the UK now are being encouraged to return home to take up work in their home country because there is work there now, in a way there wasn't earlier. Increased prosperity in Poland means an increasingly prosperous EU. It's all about growing the market for goods and services isn't it?

The more prosperous a country the more stable it is likely to be. WWII taught us all about the value of peace.

The uk has mis-managed it's prosperity. Only a few are able to prosper. Brexit, to some people, is a vote against that.

If UK wants to trade with the rest of the World outside the EU maybe the opinion of those that are from outside the EU is worth listening to?

The UK can already trade with the rest of the world while still in the EU. If they think otherwise they don't know what they are talking about. In that case, it would be a waste of time listening to them.

I can't wait to write to Mr Trump and tell him how to run the US. I'm sure it would be well received by him and his supporters. And his detractors, frankly.

If UK wants to trade with the rest of the World outside the EU maybe the opinion of those that are from outside the EU is worth listening to

i know brexiteers who thought we only traded with the eu.

Lol re trading with the rest of the world. You should watch some of the parliamentary committees. China thinks it's hilarious and have described us as now a practice country before they negotiate with the big boys : the EU.

japan is super-impressed though.

oh wait, no. no they arent.

theshuttle I agree with your statements and think that in general (contrary to Brexit propaganda) for instance Germany has done much to contribute to eu stability and “check itself”, despite being in essence the working engine of the continent.
The non-altruistic reason to let East European nations in (as pushed for the U.K.) was to drag them out of the sphere of Russian influence and get other populous countries in the mix to balance Germany and France).

The EU has to be viewed as both a trade project and a citizen project. If the total land was all one country (something like the USA) then the differences in raw materials in some places and advantages of good weather for food production would be a bit less of an issue.
Germany and to a lesser extent France (of the old EEC) had iron ore and coal etc so a lot of heavy industry. Other countries. Spain for food crops plays it's part, but the value of the commodities produced are not equal. Trying to get all 28 countries together is a pretty big ask and requires compromises.