Brace for Brexit

[tilder]

I am a firm remainer and am pretty angry tbo. Feel disenfranchised and embarrassed about my country.

However. We have been taking steps to try and protect our family from Brexit fallout. We aren't stockpiling food or water (maybe some food items) but have done the following:

Made sure we have a few months of prescription medicines.
Several boxes ibuprofen and paracetamol.
Employed an accountant to ensure we only pay the tax we have to.
I have not moved jobs (despite a pay rise offer).
Moved our mortgage early to a 5 year fixed deal.
Managed pensions to limit uk investment.
Moved what savings we have to a non UK bank and out of premium bonds.

It's depressing and uncomfortable. I feel some of the above is a betrayal of my country. But then again, not sure I want to contribute anymore.

Is it just us? Is there more we could or should do?

Tilder I didn't mean to give you the idea that I was comparing you with JRM! Certainly not! We have a responsibility to do everything in our power to provide for the needs of our ourselves and dependents in times of crisis, then help others. It sounds like you have done what you have to do.

TheShuttle i understood what you meant. The hypocrisy of JRM and his ilk is staggering. It's just an unpleasant feeling to find I have any similarity to him. Especially about something so self serving.

I've also seen people from the former Yugoslavia commenting on Twitter that this period of British politics feels to them like the run up to the war there

I have a few friends from the former Yugoslavia who've said similar. Over the years I've heard many stories about what the country was like before the wars and what a shock it was to everyone when they all turned on each other and the place fell apart.

How about living in Syria?

Syria now, a country with a Civil War going on, or the Syria of say 10 years ago, being peaceful and prosperous? Countries can descend into anarchy and war quickly.

Those who talk about how quickly Yugoslavia fell apart just remember only a few years before it was prosperous and settled enough to host the Winter Olympics where Torville and Dean were performing their magnificent routines. If you had said then that in less than ten years the country would be tearing itself apart, the rest of the world wouldn't have believed it. Those in the country may have known what was coming.

I don’t really know what you mean, Peregrina. Did you read the Twitter thread linked above?

I’m a bit too young to remember anything but the fact of Torville and Dean existing, my v limited knowledge of Yugoslavia as it was is based on stories from friends who grew up there.

Agree completely on Syria. FIL travelled there for business not that long ago. And look at it now ☹️

Looking back a bit further of course we have WWII in Europe and everyone saying that nothing too bad could happen.....

I got a bit carried away there, I’m not meaning to suggest that we’re on the verge of a world war!!!! Just that complacency is a very dangerous thing.

I have read the Ivanka twitter thread before. My point was that only stable and relatively prosperous countries are in a position to host an Olympics, which Yugoslavia must have been when T & D won there in Sarajevo in 1984; 8 years later the country was engaged in a civil war.

Mind you, the UK hosted a successful Summer Olympics in 2012, where the country pulled together. 4 Years later a divisive Referendum held by a weak PM split the country apart... With what consequence?Well we don't know yet.

I know perfectly “normal” people that in ex Yugoslavia had “normal” lives. Could more or less choose their job, owned a place, went on holidays, had access to western goods, even went skiing....two years later, they were changing the hobs in their cooker to a mix of gas and electricity, because energy supply was on alternate days. Bought massive freezers in “syndication” with family because the inflation was 30% a month. Had to leave their job and serve in the army. Just saying. They didn’t see it coming...

Yy cherin one of my friends went on exchange to the US for a year.

She had pretty much what you’d think of as a normal middle-class life. Then it all turned to shit.

(To anyone who’s got an interest in the topic: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Man%27s_Land_(2001_film) but maybe this is a bit tough on the stomach right now....)

The unplanned byproduct of those years is that an abnormal % of males of that particular generation are either doctors or engineers. The only two university courses that allowed boys to be exempt from conscription....I bet the girls doing every other faculty were feeling antsy...

Unfortunately the perception of WW2 from an English civilian is totally different to the citizens of Europe. Yes the Luftwaffe bombed cities which was obviously devastating if you were hit, but there was so much more. Widespread hunger and starvation for a start, and then the occupied countries, if you killed a German, troops would come around and gather up 10 family members or more and execute them. That is a whole different thing altogether.

But it’s not explained in school, it’s not presented in movies, it’s all about the blitz spirit, and the morale, and doing the right thing, being in the right side....the rest of Europe has got scars so deep that understands the value of a Union, because has seen what War does to civilian population, to borders, to life. This feeling of “British exceptionalism” is actually based on a combination historical ignorance or geographical optimism ;-)

(I can’t express myself properly, I’m also doing homework with DS about bats. Now I wonder where the expression batshit crazy comes from...)

Someone told me once that an infection commonly contracted from bat droppings causes psychotic-type symptoms. I wasn't entirely convinced at the time, but I could be wrong.

Good posts about Yugoslavia and other examples of how fast things can fall apart, even in places which you think are settled and prosperous.

I think Leavers sneering about "this isn't Syria" reveal, in one swoop, their xenophobia, British exceptionalism and ignorance.

Weren't bats supposed to be carriers of rabies? Which would explain 'batshit'.

Oh duh of course - that's probably what he meant. I thought he was trolling me TBH

Historical countries with long lasting animosity forced together in one new country, what could possibly go wrong?

Damascus was a wonderful vibrant and BUSY city when I went 35 years ago.
The tension in the Balkans is still rumbling on with talks about moving Muslim and Christian communities around.

I have had the same thought about Zimbabwe - somewhere I visited in my gap year.

I don't think we should think we are immune to things going badly wrong.

the rest of Europe has got scars so deep that understands the value of a Union, because has seen what War does to civilian population, to borders, to life

This is also true for the people on the island of Ireland. The Brexiteers just cannot get their heads around the fact that the Irish have fought so hard to preserve the the GFA and prioritise peace above all else.

It's just as well this ISN'T WW2. Some of you would soon be fined or locked up for undermining morale.

The natural resources in Uganda should make it one of the most productive in Africa but Idi Amin expelled all the 'professionals', Lawyers, teachers, engineers and larger businesses. Zimbabwe is similar.
Entrepreneurial spirit will always move to places with the best opportunities, the UK leaving risks driving them away.

But it’s not explained in school, it’s not presented in movies, it’s all about the blitz spirit, and the morale, and doing the right thing, being in the right side....

Indeed... even Dunkirk seen from the French side looks a bit different...