Brace for Brexit

[tilder]

I am a firm remainer and am pretty angry tbo. Feel disenfranchised and embarrassed about my country.

However. We have been taking steps to try and protect our family from Brexit fallout. We aren't stockpiling food or water (maybe some food items) but have done the following:

Made sure we have a few months of prescription medicines.
Several boxes ibuprofen and paracetamol.
Employed an accountant to ensure we only pay the tax we have to.
I have not moved jobs (despite a pay rise offer).
Moved our mortgage early to a 5 year fixed deal.
Managed pensions to limit uk investment.
Moved what savings we have to a non UK bank and out of premium bonds.

It's depressing and uncomfortable. I feel some of the above is a betrayal of my country. But then again, not sure I want to contribute anymore.

Is it just us? Is there more we could or should do?

Cant stockpile DH's neuro meds. If he's ill then...

And I'm really worried about school budget. This years was entirely inadequate. I imagine a downturn will just mean less money for public services. Our only option left is to reduce school hours and pay people less.

UK pays 350 Million per week to the EU before rebates are taken into account.

It is estimated that since the 2016 referendum UK has lost between 500 and 700 million per week. That is more than what UK pays to EU even without rebates. Does not make a lot of sense to lose more per week than what is paid out to EU, but a Vote is a Vote.

Already talk of EU charging UK more if Article 50 is extended.

A shambles all round. Thankfully I do not live or Work in the UK or the EU.

{A shambles all round. Thankfully I do not live or Work in the UK or the EU.}
So why are you on MN spreading untruths about Brexit when you could be doing something important like discussing handbags/shoes/global warming?

We are Constantly told by Leavers that they didn't vote because of Immigration. Then a Leaver bobs up and lets the side down by saying it was all about immigration.

I really hope that they do welcome increased immigration from the Far East and Sub Saharan Africa, because that is what they are getting now, even though it's something we can control.

The referendum did not become binding when article 50 was triggered. They are separate things.

It has been clear for some time that the UK can retract article 50 and the EU would support that. Remember, a British man responsible for writing article 50 pointed this out a long time ago.

You do not know why "people" voted for Brexit. Different people voted for it for very different reasons. At the moment, financial crooks are getting anxious about EU laws that will come into force a few days after 29 March and will hopefully make their nefarious activities more difficult.

Other people, with almost no experience of any immigration "problem" voted for brexit because life is shit in their part of the UK and they thought they had nothing to lose.

"Brussels" is not elected only in so far as the European Commission is the equivalent of a civil service. Just as the British have powerful and unelected civil servants.

The other institutions are democratically run, either by direct suffrage in European elections or by each country putting forward their head of government or senior politician.

People's ignorance does not mean the EU is undemocratic.

Now "uncontrolled" immigration. The British government has not been interested in controls over immigration from the EU. When the countries of former Eastern Europe joined, the British government chose to welcome them before other countries without any planning for the impact that might have. Other EU countries chose not to do this, as was their right, in order to "control" the situation.

Every other EU country I have lived in also monitor (control?) immigration. The authorities know who I am, where I live, have copies of birth, marriage certificates etc. If I am not self-supporting I can not stay here. My right to stay is tied up with a responsibility to work or support myself. In Belgium, when you move house, the police visit and check you are really living there. T

I have to pay for health insurance. If I don't, I don't have access to health services without paying upfront. There is no accessing medical services without being entitled.

There are plenty of controls to immigration on the EU side. If the British wanted to "control" immigration they could.

But facts are boring aren't they?

Cant stockpile DH's neuro meds. If he's ill then...

I've been taking 5/8 of the prescribed dose for about two months to build up a small supply. Do you have any leaway of that sort?

We are Constantly told by Leavers that they didn't vote because of Immigration. Then a Leaver bobs up and lets the side down by saying it was all about immigration.

Annoying though this all is, how can you believe that every leaver's reasoning was the same? I can't even believe that every remainer's reasoning was the same, (even though those voting for the status quo are all voting for the same thing).

Guff like this from both sides is irritating me now.

The Bulldog spirit rhetoric is maddening but so is the mimsiness from the remainer side.

Thankfully I do not live or Work in the UK or the EU.

Jesus fucking christ.

{Annoying though this all is, how can you believe that every leaver's reasoning was the same?}

There is the issue. Whatever reason 'levers' come up with it is all negative, there are NO significant positives to leaving except a handful will gain from disaster capital boosts.
Although the 'remain' camp all have different reasons to want to stay in the EU, they are all positive. I doubt anyone is 100% in love with the EU and most will readily acknowledge the various issues that need addressing but flouncing out of a massive bloc is just madness.
The world has changed since the days of Empire and you can't use the violence and oppression of that era to gain influence any more.

There is the issue. Whatever reason 'levers' come up with it is all negative, there are NO significant positives to leaving except a handful will gain from disaster capital boosts.

That's not the point. It's not even in the same vicinity as the point.

Thankfully I do not live or Work in the UK or the EU.

Why don't you worry about something else, then?

We are Constantly told by Leavers that they didn't vote because of Immigration

Some Leavers may not have been swayed by immigration, but I am sure many were. Seem to remember certain Tabloids hammering away at immigration regularly in the run up to the 2016 referendum.
I am British Citizen, but did not Vote either way.

When the countries of former Eastern Europe joined, the British government chose to welcome them before other countries without any planning for the impact that might have

They were welcomed as they represented cheap labour.

Article 50 is binding unless retracted, but so far it has not been retracted. EU would be correct to Charge UK for going beyond 29 March much in the same way a Contractor who does not complete his Work on time pays damages.

People's ignorance does not mean the EU is undemocratic

People's ignorance does not mean they are not allowed to Vote how they choose either.

{ There is the issue. Whatever reason 'levers' come up with it is all negative, there are NO significant positives to leaving except a handful will gain from disaster capital boosts.

That's not the point. It's not even in the same vicinity as the point.}

Of course that is the point. None of the UK's 'woes' are anything to do with the EU. Only 6% of the electorate had any interest in the EU before the referendum.
If you think that leaving the EU is going to drastically cut immigration, fund schools, reduce crime, regenerate any of the run down cities and areas of the UK you are sadly mistaken. Billions have been wasted on this 'Leave' exercise and the bills and repercussions haven't really started yet.

If you think that leaving the EU is going to drastically cut immigration, fund schools, reduce crime, regenerate any of the run down cities and areas of the UK you are sadly mistaken

Maybe, but how people Vote is their choice.

No, still not vaguely what we were talking about, which was whether @Peregrina was correct to assume that a) all leavers had the same motivation for voting leave and, b) whether that motivation was immigration.

I haven't even touched on whether voters attitudes were "correct" or justified. That's an entirely different subject.

Maybe, but how people Vote is their choice.

Exactly.

We should all stick to debating the issues. The next big job after Brexit is to address the rift.

I would deprive anyone of a vote.

As a long-term EU resident, I would have appreciated a vote in an issue that would have very significant consequences for me and my family.

A vote David Cameron had said we would have but in the end he was probably just to indifferent and lazy to do anything about.

I would not deprive anyone of a vote.

{We should all stick to debating the issues. The next big job after Brexit is to address the rift.}

So fire away with your plans to replace the job losses, how to regenerate significant areas of the UK that have been underfunded, improve UC, and help the police do their job in tackling crime.
You have 3 weeks, starting today.

• So fire away with your plans to replace the job losses, how to regenerate significant areas of the UK that have been underfunded, improve UC, and help the police do their job in tackling crime. You have 3 weeks, starting today.*

Whys that my job? I didn't vote for this.

So fire away with your plans to replace the job losses, how to regenerate significant areas of the UK that have been underfunded, improve UC, and help the police do their job in tackling crime.
You have 3 weeks, starting today

So what is LeClerc's plan?

You sound very Labourish. Quick to criticize, but not so quick to come up with a solution or suggestion.

I think we're all supposed to be too busy flagellating each other to worry about it too much 😏

A vote David Cameron had said we would have but in the end he was probably just to indifferent and lazy to do anything about.

He's slunk off like the weasel he is and is hiding out in his bespoke shepherd's hut, writing some military history or a biography of Disraeli or somesuch.

Nowhere did I say that All Leavers voted because of immigration. I am well aware that some voted to protect the NHS. So no one need assume any more than I did that I know what 17 million people voted for. However, Farage stirred up hatred against immigrants, and he knew what he was doing - he knew that he would appeal to a significant portion of the electorate.

The next big job after Brexit is to address the rift

Cannot be done.

{So what is LeClerc's plan?}
I made a couple of proposals a month or more back. A couple of people even joined in and agreed.
Massive enlargement of medical training from trainee nurses 'upwards' with new facilities built by retrained workers from other industry that is suffering now. EXPORT medical staff, for which be negotiation with other governments money would flow into the UK.
Expansion of cottage hospitals, perhaps linked with elderly care in new, environmentally friendly and people friendly 'estates' with decent access to public transport. This would give jobs for builders, architects, Nurses, training for junior nurses, safe, comfortable and environmentally friendly accommodation for the elderly.
Yes, hugely expensive but to achieve it would be fantastic.
Alternatively the UK can wallow in it's own demise, complaining that everyone is so 'mean'.
Humans can get to the moon, send probes to Mars, but are prepared to let our elderly die in squalor.

Yes, 1tis, and by pushing an NHS button, one that the vast majority of the UK would happily get behind. I am too cynical to think that it will happen, at the moment at least. It might happen when we crash out, and then someone with some vision as we had in the wartime coalition realise that there is a better way and we have to go for it.