Westminstenders: Distract and divert. Just close your eyes.

[RedToothBrush]

This morning Jeremy Hunt declared that, 'With vision on both sides we can find a way through that has the support of Parliament and also works for the EU'

Of course this is 18th February 2019 and the UK has yet to demostrate they understand the problem, much less have the vision to solve it. And we leave the EU next month.

It needs to be stressed at this point: DON'T FORGET TO FOCUS ON WHAT REALLY MATTERS

Everything else is a tactic to make you close your eyes and miss what is really going on. Everything. Brexit looks increasingly like a hypnotist making their subject do ever increasing acts of ridiculousness on stage. Except I do not know if the public or the politicians are that poor sod. It is the magician who uses tricks of slight of hand to make you look the wrong way, whilst they makes all the big moves out of your vision.

There are so many stories that are coming out to try and make you miss what the government are failing to do. Stay focused. We can't ignore all these stories, but understand whether they are really important to the end game too.

A labour split, a march on the 23rd March, talk of a PV, the Brady amendment, the Malthouse Compromise, Cooper-Boles halting no deal?

No we need more than that.

The time for fantasies are gone. Its time to face reality and be pragmatic. The only thing that matters is the approaching cliff. Which we will go over not on the 29th March but in the next couple of weeks. We might not realise the ground disappearing beneath our feet at first. Our momentum as we go forward will carry for a short while before gravity kicks in.

But we can not defy the laws of physics and suddenly be able to fly because we develop magic superhuman powers of vision.

And no one will come to save us either.

Our national humilation will be total, if we don't acknowledge what is coming and stop.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3492426-Westministenders-Abbreviation
Brexit Abbreviation Thread

FWIW I think she should make her own way to a country with British consular service (ie not Syria) and then ask to be repatriated.

She will be arrested under the existing law for supporting terrorism and her child will be taken into care
and she will spend a couple of VERY boring years in prison awaiting trial
then be sentenced to the two years and put on deradicalisation
as UNGLAMOROUS as it gets

and far more of a deterrent than making her a Bangladeshi martyr

Sorry when I said repatriation I mean repatriation of any UK citizen to their parents country of origin. Dangerous territory

repatriation of any UK citizen to their parents country of origin.

Agree, and also agree with the tweet on the same point that RTB posted above. We already know that there are effectively considered to be two classes of British citizens, this is not new.

But if this stripping of citizenship is allowed to stand, it sets a precedent that will hang over the heads of any British-born citizen who has the misfortune of being born (and therefore tainted) to a foreign-born parent.

you came under a lot of fire on that thread!

I'm a dreadful troll but I chuck a match on the flames then don't read the responses lol. At best I read back 5-10 posts to find a new person to wind up. They can @ me all they like but I am unlikely to read what they have written as mails from mumsnet go straight to my spam.

I don't do that on these threads (though due to volume of posts I admit to reading selectively).

I also mostly agree with Talk1n, although I think that it will be a bit more complicated judicially because she was a minor and also a victim of crimes, including sex crimes (though sex crimes against Muslim minors don't seem to bother people very much).

I’ve just heard on the radio that the competitions watchdog wants to stop the merger between Sainbury’s And Asda because it’ll drive up prices and reduce quality. It’s a shame the competitions watchdog doesn’t get a say in Brexit, isn’t it?

Counter terrorism law has a checked history with how it is introduced and then used against ordinary citizens for non terrorist reasons. This looks like a deliberate undermining of rights too. Which I find concerning.

For me there are two issues; Begum herself and the implications for the rule of law and how politics is being used to abuse that.

You do need to keep an eye on both and not get swept up into the emotion of Begum alone.

I was interested to read on the other thread that there is another “Jihadi Bride” case in the US.
Maybe there is a wider purpose than just trying to make Javid look good to the populists.

A lot of rabble-rousing on that thread, too.

On Twitter just now, thought I was no longer capable of being shocked but ... !!!!!

@andywigmore
Congratulations to my old friend @DegsyHatton back in the band @UKLabour - word of caution mate, being mates with wiggy will be bad for your reputation Degsy #BrexitDegsy 😉@Arron_banks

Gove on Farming Today:
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0002m5k
Gove in the Daily Mash:
www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/environment/michael-goves-guide-to-running-a-post-brexit-farm-20190220182681

Carl Gardner @ carlgardner
The success or failure of @TheIndGroup and perhaps other splits may be determined by marginal tactical decisions now, that turn out later to have been major strategic choices. Extreme care is needed. 1/

I think it could be a mistake to drift into becoming one all-purpose "centre party" drawing from all other parties. The risk is of having no clear identity, electoral positioning or mission. If this is where it's going, those joining now must communicate a clear aim. 2/

I think Conservatives tempted to follow the example of @TheIndGroup might do better to form their own separate "one nation" group. There's no reason moderates can't inspire each other and work together rather than join the same team. 3/

Another option is to make it clear that @TheIndGroup is a loose alliance from which one or more new parties might be formed one day, and that joining it is less an open-ended commitment to a single unknown new party, more a break from the big bodysnatched parties. 4/

A dangerous strategic question is that of relations with the LibDems. It's easy for cooperation with them to become a takeover by them, as the SDP found. Or toxifying. I think any new party would be wise to keep some distance and differentiate itself strongly from the LibDems. 5/

In fact any new party must at least consider the possible strategic advantage in aiming to eliminate and replace the LibDems rather than working with them at all. 6/

But I think the most sensible option might be to have a clear but limited mission now. The obvious one is to stop Brexit, or at least secure a People's Vote. You might widen that to opposing the social division Brexit's led to or uncovered, and to alternative solutions. 7/

People mention by elections but the big electoral opportunity potentially approaching is the European elections - as Nigel Farage knows very well. It's a chance for his Brexit party, and it's also a chance for a Stop Brexit list. 8/

Conventional wisdom is that new parties can't succeed "because of first past the post". Maybe. But if there's a huge decisive issue with half of voters feeling unrepresented, and maybe a single-issue PR election on the horizon, conventional wisdom may end up looking silly. 9/

So if I were involved in this new movement I'd advise it to focus on working together now against Brexit, to be openly agnostic about institutional questions and the future, and to be visibly different and distant from the LibDems. 10/

Much wisdom here.

Laura Kuenssberg @bbclaurak
Think rumour mill will be proved right by #pmqs - with a sprinkling of tories quitting to take seats with @TheIndGroup - def a day to watch #pmqs on #PoliticsLive and keep up with @BBCPolitics

Tanith it probably makes the bots for Brietbart easier to manage if we have similar news as US for targeting muslims

I've found worrying trends in both and use of words such as "scum" by people against human beings makes me fear that someone has been turned. It's something degrading to your argument if you already treat that person as less than.

I agree the new grouping should distance itself from the LDs and focus entirely on Brexit issues.

Ross Kempsall @rosskempsell
TIG expected to announce three Tory splitters just after midday. This means they could walk across the floor of the Commons from Tory benches at #PMQs for maximum impact

Small voice from back of car.
'Are we nearly there , I feel sick'?

There's a bowl by your feet, LeClerc, throw up in that. Unfortunately we have quite a way to go yet!

But if this stripping of citizenship is allowed to stand, it sets a precedent that will hang over the heads of any British-born citizen who has the misfortune of being born (and therefore tainted) to a foreign-born parent.
This is my massive concern over all this too.

I remember my mother's turmoil back in the days of the Troubles and when children didn't have their own passports. My sister and I were put on my fathers British passport which worried her greatly should anything happen within their marriage but she weighed that up against the possibility of us being detained/refused entry back into the UK should anything have happened whilst we were abroad or about to go abroad. This was after multiple attempts to get British citizenship herself but eventually giving up when they moved the goalposts every time, despite her always fulfilling the criteria at the time she applied.

Nicholas Watt @nicholaswatt
The new tighter numbers in parliament could be used by Leo Varadkar who has been telling Sinn Fein they should take their seats when future of Ireland at stake. If SF did so and the three Tory defectors voted with the opposition Theresa May could lose a no confidence notion

Sinn Fein leader Mary Lou McDonald told Andrew Marr Sinn Fein would not take its seats for the obvious historical reasons around abstention. But she also said her seven MPs would not make a difference at Westminster. That second argument now open to challenge

@MaryLouMcDonald

I don't believe this will happen but...

Just three splitters? I thought we were expecting four.

Oh god, Corbyn wanted an election didn’t he? I really hope that he doesn’t use this to take his chance? Arrrgh!

Well, I'm of mixed race so could be in danger too. Only plus for me is I know my mother was white British cockney. I don't know who my father is can't ask biological mother as she is dead. So I think I'm safe in saying I will be OK. Oh by the way, SB was a grade A student so you could say she knew what she was doing. BUT religious cults are great at 'brainwashing' they are the best at it. I'm just thankful no one in my family has been radicalised because no matter what she is someones child and I really wouldn't know what I would do or feel if it were my child.

Katya Adler @ bbckatyaadler
Yawning gulf apparent between what’s being briefed/hinted/expected by No10 (a revised Brexit deal in the offing possibly ready for HoC to vote on early next week) and EU reality (Barnier still talking about ‘worrying political impasse’) 1

Ahead of PM’s visit to Brussels today, @JunckerEU said he expected no breakthrough but that is polite-speak compared to what I’m hearing behind the scenes 2

If PM looking for legally-binding assurances that backstop not a trap/permanent EU/UK solution. Ie If PM thinks legally-binding version of January Juncker/Tusk letter would be enough to get the deal through Parliament then EU diplomats say could draw that up ‘anytime, 24/7’ 3

But few if any believe that would suffice for all ERG plus DUP to vote yes to deal next week.. So if the PM still wants backstop ‘assurances’ to include a unilateral exit mechanism/fixed immovable end date then she will meet an EU wall 4

This is because backstop is also a fall-back mechanism to protect EU’s single market after Brexit. However much EU leaders want to avoid a no deal Brexit, leaving exposed a 500 km gap (length of border on island of Ireland) is thought to be far more costly to EU in long term 5

Idea in Westminster that EU will ‘blink in the end’ rather than face no deal Brexit is right in that EU more flexible than has indicated BUT wrong if MPs imagine EU will abandon/fundamentally weaken backstop bc EU believes that will be more costly to them than a no deal Brexit 6

Current EU-UK impasse (still) comes down to EU offering legally-binding clarifications/assurances on backstop or ways to avoid triggering backstop altogether -eg UK agreeing to permanent customs union - and No10 saying those ideas won’t fly in HoC 7

Little has changed since the launch of the ‘new round of EU-UK talks’. EU officials believe any breakthrough - if found- will materialise next month 8

If no breakthrough by late March, EU will grant extension, insisting, they say, that UK takes part in May elections to European Parliament. EU says will use extension to ensure bloc protects itself as best as can from impact of no deal Brexit if no progress with UK is made 9

EU pointing to mounting no deal preparations, Michel Barnier touring EU capitals insisting on EU unity even as talks with UK go down to wire, is, of course, fighting talk but I am struck by increasing sense in EU that no deal Brexit is manageable, even if clearly undesirable 10

To be clear: there’s a growing sense in EU that, as time goes by, and they increase damage-limitation preparations, that a no deal Brexit is manageable, if highly undesirable for EU, while still very damaging to UK 11

We can really see what the Tories really are. How uncompassionate they are, that is, unless its one of their own....... So much hate out there all around the world, no humanity left it seems.