Westminstenders: Competitive Stupidity

[RedToothBrush]

A week of wondering which MP is going to be the most dumb.

There is stiff competition between parties and remain / leave.

Expect incredible bids of ignorance and incompetence to curl your toes, with a bit of constitutional craziness thrown in for good measure.

Valentine's Day beckons...

... And so does the No Deal Divorce.

I suppose a reference to Greece and the problems it had and has should be a sort of warning. There is a lot of poverty in Greece and the EU is obviously well aware of this. There has also been 'financial irregularity' in the past which has made the situation worse. Obviously many in the EU would like the situation to improve, but only have access and finance for certain actions. This is a country that is not wanting to 'escape' Europe, the terms for the UK when it leaves could be quite brutal in comparison as the UK becomes a '3rd country' rival.

DGR
I have always thought Earth as being green with a yellow stripe. Before harmonisation of course it was just green.

re military sabre-rattling:

it is a serious concern that these arrogant idiots could stumble into a war on the other side of the world,
for which the UK military is poorly prepared

When the economy may crash over the cliff, it's not a good time to start a war

• unless against a much weaker country with resources we could take and that doesn't have any powerful friends to slap down the UK

Difficult to see who we could pick as a suitable victim, without risking serious embarassment at best.

Sending an aircraft carrier to frighten China could go badly wrong with macho pilots facing off on both sides

The Royal Navy would be at the end of long supply lines
and also probably can't scrape up a sufficiently powerful battle group to properly protect an aircraft carrier

I was reminded of the tragedy of the sinking of Prince of Wales and Repulse during WW2

They weren't adequately protected against a powerful opponent

However, at least there was a reason for taking such a risk: we were fighting WW2
How does this current risk advance British interests ?
Where's the economic benefit, or any other benefit ?

Unless something drastic has changed, the UK currently has no aircraft to launch from it's carriers anyway.

There are several flat earth societies - they do not get on with each other
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_flat_Earth_societies
The late great Patrick Moore tried to introduce them to the Hollow Earth society en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow_Earth
It did not go well

has far too many books on variants of earth shape

I'd not worry about a UK carrier force sailing into the S.China sea.

We've not the capability anymore, we ve a total of 20 major surface vessels, many in dock, the Chinese have built major 80 boats in the last 5 years alone.
Much of our dock capacity has been sold off for housing, so even if we were to suddenly find the 100s of billions to build (where?) and crew more boats, we ve no-where to put them.

Modern surface to ship missiles make defending an AC close to your enemy extremely difficult, as we found out in the Falklands.

Williamson is a berk, pandering to the DM/Sun types stuck in the past.

Future US FTA & Ireland:

pp upthread were asking how could we have a US FTA if Congress blocks any NI border infrastructure / checks or any weakening of the GFA

when the US has also said they will only sign a deal if the UK lets in their industrialised meat, chicken etc which doesn't satisfy EU food, health & hygeine standards.

Answer:
the US will demand that trade deal is with GB only and that there is an NI-only backstop.
So all checks would be in the Irish Sea

This would roll back the concession that the EU made to May of an all-UK backstop,
but the EU would of course be quite happy to agree to that.
So would the Irish government

Opinion polls in Ireland, quoted in the last thread, are that

• only 7% want to make more concessions to the UK
• 79% want Varadkar not to concede anything - and half of those want him to get tougher with the UK^

The Irish govt and Irish public opinion would be supported widely in the US,
including among Trump supporters

Trump would have no problem siding with Ireland against the UK:
After all, when the IRA were bombing London in the 1990s, he proudly attended an IRA / Sinn Fein fund-raising dinner with honoured guest Gerry Adams

So long as he gets his trade deal for the powerful US farming / agribusiness sector, he couldn't care less if the UK is humiliated and forced into a clear Irish Sea border.

The "Special Relationship" the UK thinks it has with the US only applies when it is in US interests

www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-47198426

Russia plans to 'unplug' from internet ...

jas Sending the aircraft carrier like that would be an idiotic irresponsibly risky decision

Now why am I not reassured this govt won't do it ?
Just to pander to the batshit flag-wavers

Brexiters have their own invented "News" because they refuse to face reality that doesn't fit their dream

I also believe that if you continually hear people like Johnson, JRM and Farage and their ilk spouting nonsense that goes unchecked and unchallenged by the vast majority of journalists you might believe it to be true. For some people if it says it on the BBC News or on R4 it must be true and if this is backed up in the DM then it is certainly true. The media has a lot to answer for in all of this. They have allowed these people to go unchallenged for far too long.

Soft Brexit talks with Labour risk cabinet split

Yet another split ?
I didn't think there was any solidarity there left to split.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/8e817992-2d8a-11e9-b26a-04579b7820b3

PM asks Corbyn to explain customs union plan in a move that risks losing her support from Conservative MPs

Theresa May opened the door last night to a soft Brexitt_ by engaging with Jeremy Corbyn on a customs union in a move that puts her at risk of losing the support of members of her cabinet.

In a letter to the Labour leaderr_, the prime minister suggested that their parties hold further talks on the issue of a permanent customs union in an attempt to win support from Labour MPs for her Brexit plan.

She also offered guarantees on environmental and employment laws, addressing more of the opposition’s central demands.

Mrs May was warned, however, that by negotiating with Labour she could prompt an exodus of ministers.
Liz Truss, chief secretary to the Treasury, failed to rule out quitting the government

I agree BackInTime They have allowed these people to go unchallenged for far too long.

It's also important to challenge lies and misleading information on threads like these too: which is why we keep on asking for the link to the 500 page Brexit White Paper

And challenging assertions like “No deal” brexit just means trading on WTO rules which the rest of the world do anyway (as seen on today on another Brexit thread)

(Rory Stewart is Minister of State at the Ministry of Justice with responsibility for prisons, probation and sentencing)

John Rentoul RetweetedJames Tapsfield@JamesTapsfield

Rory Stewart asked if he will resign over Brexit, says he is currently focused on 'trying to resign over prisons' 😂

{There are several flat earth societies - they do not get on with each other}
If 6 of them, on 3 parallel theories got together, each perpendicularly opposed they could end up boxing themselves in.

{I also believe that if you continually hear people like Johnson, JRM and Farage and their ilk spouting nonsense that goes unchecked and unchallenged}
The problem is that it isn't nonsense, or at least it is only nonsense if you are wanting a 'green and pleasant land' fit for all. Their concept is to trash and burn everything which is far more sinister, and they are going about it in a ruthless manner. Replace 'stupid' with 'unpleasant'.

John Rentoull@JohnRentoul*

I've been speaking to Lab MPs incl shadow ministers about this week's Brexit amendments –
they are increasingly frustrated by Corbyn's refusal to talk to them
....
"I've spent more time with Gavin Barwell [PM's chief of staff] since Xmas than with Seumas Milne in past 2 years":
Labour frontbencher
....
For a leader whose entire reputation is based on standing up for his principles and beliefs, Jeremy Corbyn is astonishingly reluctant to ever say what they are.
He says what he means less than any of his recent triangulating predecessors.

< cos he's a devious, deceitful bugger >

Could both main parties split after Brexit ?

This would increase the chances of the UK splitting, with Scotland and maybe NI, pulling out within a few years of Brexit.
Superficially looks like one way of solving the backstop dilemma, but in practice could be quite dangerous.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/labour-cannot-paper-over-its-cracks-for-much-longer-rq0gbdvcl

Britain’s departure from the European Union is a big issue which is about something even bigger.

It is about Britain’s place in the world but it describes, at the same time, changes in British politics that could yet be a bigger story than Brexit itself.

For the moment, the struggle is having the paradoxical effect of holding the parties together. Nobody wants to give up the power that a party machine can bring.

Yet the moment a Brexit deal passes, as Lord Adonis has said this week,
both the main parties could split

Mrs May was warned, however, that by negotiating with Labour she could prompt an exodus of ministers.
Liz Truss, chief secretary to the Treasury, failed to rule out quitting the government

FFS! Why can’t they stop behaving like a bunch of toddlers...

.

PMK, in case a link to the 500 page White Paper shows up....

.

About UK media ...

Last one

Yeah, DGR - looks like the EU might be a bit more democratic and shit. But we is sovereign innit...

Oh fuck, I’m so cross about all of this. I don’t get cross very often.

Despite all the hostility on here I'm still glad we're leaving.

I'm against Globalisation and believe in Nation states having full sovereignty over their own affairs.

I know, eh, what a bastard I am

Despite all the hostility on here I'm still glad we're leaving.

I'm against Globalisation and believe in Nation states having full sovereignty over their own affairs.

I know, eh, what a bastard I am