Westminstenders: It's oh so quiet...

[RedToothBrush]

It's oh so quiet // It's oh so still // You're all alone // And so peaceful until

You ring the news // Bim bam // You shout and you yell // Hi ho ho // You broke the spell // Gee, this is swell you almost have a fit // Brexit is fab and I got hit // There's no mistake get on with it

'Til it's over and then // It's nice and quiet //
Shh shh // But soon again // Shh shh // Uh oh let's start a big riot

You blow a fuse // Zing boom // The devil cuts loose // Zing boom // What's the use
Wow bam // Of leaving the EU

It's gone quiet.

May was supposed to go on a tour of the EU to get concessions. She hasn't.

Instead we are currently stuck in an internal never ending debate about Alternative Arrangements (which is being abbreved too A. A. by less convinced souls) and how Germany got all the money from Marshall Aid (it didn't) and how navy ships can suddenly sprout front opening hulls to become roll on roll off ferries to emulate the spirit of Dunkirk. One of our greatest ever military defeats, which merely had good PR.

The idea that there is going to be any shift in position between now and 14th Feb seems unlikely. It suits the EU and it suits the ERG to be blunt about it. It does not suit the UK national interest though.

Instead our livihoods and futures are slowly drip, drip, dripping away. Invisible to those loved up on the idea of Leaving. But like a newly wed, how long does that feeling last? 42% of British marriages end in divorce after all. When do people fall out of love with Brexit?

The revelation of the need for the WAIB is scary too. The WAIB is the Withdrawal Agreement Implementation Bill. You can read more about it here:
threadreaderapp.com/thread/1091734003265224708.html
Well I say you can read about it, but from the thread you can see that the WAIB hasn't been published yet. And for us to Brexit without a legal and constitutional nightmare parliament needs to pass both the WA And the WAIB. And if you thought it was difficult to get the WA through just wait until you clap eyes on the WAIB details.

With this in mind there are noises from the ERG about an A50 extension. Y'know the one we can't have unless the EU think it's it their interests too.

mlexmarketinsight.com/insights-center/editors-picks/brexit/europe/the-uk-rips-out-its-eu-law-drip,-only-to-hook-up-to-another
More on the WAIB.

Of course there is a more sinister explanation: May does indeed intend to no deal and or use civil contingency law to pass the WAIB in whatever form she sees fit without parliamentary scrutiny.

Tick, tick, tick.

A friend told me today not to worry about brexit as "we survived before and we'll survive again". I didn't say much. My history lessons were rather grimmer in reminding me, that the ones who didn't survive don't get to be so optimistic.

No, Hesta. You're indulging yourself. And trying to ignore the sense of panic that's lurking just out of reach.

It's not my job to reassure or indulge you.

No-one cares about what you think about the EU - or what I think.

We're looking at No Deal chaos.

Stop trying to ignore reality and wake yourself up.

Lisa Nandy is possibly one of the few people who could take that position publically in the way she is right now. She ok as MPs go, and is seen as a bright hope for the party. Her constituency is one of the most heavily leave and is also extremely safe if memory serves. To a certain extent she has to make the right noises just to keep her constituents happy.

Will she be listened to? I doubt she will be taken as seriously as she could be by the party leadership, in part because Corbyn just wants to ignore Brexit. And her position seems to be currently too far away from Starmer's. I think Starmer is more pragmatic generally and his position is going to drift over the next few weeks - though I don't think it will go so far as to back Nandy for party political reasons.

BUT I think that Labour MPs are now no longer remotely interested in what either Corbyn nor Starmer say. Its almost every man for himself because of the complete lack of leadership there is.

So yes I do think that Nandy and Caroline Flint could get 60 Labour MPs behind them precisely because of the lack of leadership elsewhere and the realisation that its either that or no deal. Nandy's constituency would be one of the hardest hit by no deal. She has to take that threat seriously if she's a credible politician.

Its the pragmatic approach in theory. In reality, it'll burn many of those who do it, in the long run. Nandy strikes me as being one of the few who really hasn't much to lose. If she gets it right it does set her up as a potential leadership hopeful (lots of noise about Labour wanting a northern female for the next leader because they have a misogyny image problem and are struggling more for support in the north).

Do I think she's good? I think she has her moments but she's got to cut her teeth to get up to Yvette's level. I'm yet to be hugely impressed. She saying things which I think are important and need saying, but she's not blowing me away.

There are worse Labour MPs. She seems to have a certain amount of integrity (in relative terms).

Yeah, I lean towards liking her. But I'm yet to be truly impressed.

I can’t understand how you all know the EU has massive faults but don’t want to leave or campaign to alter it

Why Leave when you're a fully represented member with elected MEPs and a sovereign parliament to carry out our wishes ? And how do you know people on these boards haven't engaged with their MPs and MEPs about reform ?

The omniscience of Leavers is a truly wondrous thing.

The Préfet of our département tweeted a link today to a website for people, French and British in France, worried about Brexit and wanting information. It really does seem that they want to do their best to help and reassure us.
Not that I am drawing any parallels you understand.....

Who says we don't want to campaign to reform the EU?

Personally, I'd start with MEPs who actually attend the EU Parliament and who engage constructively with it. 5 out of my 6 MEPs do just that

Yes DGR, absolutely too late now. I said this a number of times pre 2016 but he didn’t listen. He acknowledges now I was right which is cold comfort and he will now as a result lose a lot of time with his Grandchild in 2 years time when she’s out of here.

I would say on that note; if you are really concerned about no deal, and you have a Labour MP being honest with them about being desparate to avoid it at all costs even if that means the WA, is at this point maybe whats needed to give them the encouragment to listen to Nandy.

Its far from ideal, and the WA is dreadful. The alternative is worse. It plays to Theresa's gameplan but what else is left?

DGRossetti Because we cannot see any reform only the EU trying to be more controlling, the people at the top have shown to not listen to democracy many a time, they don’t listen and just want total control, as GV said the trouble for the EU is that individual nations will not give the EU total control,

I'm dying to jump on the bandwagon of what annoys me about whiney leavers!

Why they are happy to pay £48 per month for SKY (and complain nothing is on), £30 per month for Spotify but not £29 per YEAR for guaranteed food and medicine that is cheap and regulated? Hesta can you enlighten me at all? What is the thinking behind this?

It’s done now Hesta, we are where we are, you need to own your win and stop bleating on about the bullying EU, yeah yeah, we know (and obviously disagree) Are you any good at vegetable growing ? Be good to offset the potential rising cost of food this year.

Hesta54 so what controls have the EU forced the UK government to enact then ?

Or control, even ?

The UK has massive faults, but I don't demand Leavers change it or leave it

Every organisation - the EU, NATO, UN, the police, armed forces, NHS ... -, every country, every trade bloc has faults and things that should be improved

In the event of No Deal Brexit, I'd bet on the EU remaining intact for decades after the UK has split into its different nations.

The UK has changed a lot about the EU, changing it from within:
e.g.

It was the UK - especially Mrs Thatcher - that mostly invented the Single Market and its 4 fixed pillars - which Brexiters are now trying to separate

It was the UK who campaigned to bring the East European countries into the EU so early, before their economies were sufficiently developed

It was the UK who insisted that members must have priority in key areas like the electricity connectors
and that non-member be excluded from some key fields e.g. in Galileo

we are like a junkie and the EU is are dealer and we can’t break away without the pain of detoxing

Fully radicalised.

That's just sound bites Hesta - made up stuff.

I don't understand why Brexiteers arent delighted, in 50 days time it looks like we are going to crash out without a deal - you all seem to be saying that this is what you want. Did you want us to all march along with you into this like Borg?

Note that Tusk said "I've been wondering what that special place in hell looks like, for those who promoted #Brexit, without even a sketch of a plan how to carry it out safely this is the vital bit. Where was the plan???? If the plan was to leave without a deal why the hell do we need the army calling in to support this?

It has been very interesting to see the ramping up of Leave visitors to the threads in recent days, always a sign of another key moment.

LonelyandTiredandLow Sorry I can’t help you, I don’t know any whiny leavers, maybe because that’s their choice and not just taken from them without a say

And I think a sign of what a till this is taking on everyone as we’re all getting more sucked into responding to it.

hesta The EU do listen:
to the 27 other countries that defined the mandate for Barnier to negotiate
and who refuse to renegotiate the WA that all leaders - including May - agreed and signed last year.

They listen to a country that is leaving, the UK; but they won't go against the wishes of the 27 members that are staying.

For those who want to know how carefully Tusk thought about the tweet,
read his lips ....
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47143135

That is true Post. It's not surprising that its taking a toll on us. Those of us with our eyes wide open can see what is coming if it isn't stopped and it is something that most of us have not faced before.

You're right Post

I really should sit on my hands and ignore the goady fuckery. The appropriate points have been made

In general substance addicts trying to detox need to go through a planned and supported withdrawal program, it takes planning, time and money. So even if you do believe this ridiculous analogy a hard chaotic Brexit would be the stupidest way to manage the situation successfully.

So we won't give up sovereignty (good) so the EU will not have that control (good) but we're still going to shoot ourselves in the foot - well because we just don't like their very existence . I mean they insist on stuff like food standards (have you lived in the states - I have) and workers rights ...... kind of important things for me, but not so much for Bojo, Nigel and JRM.
Oh but we're happy for our democracy to be undermined by a foreign government(Russia) via funding election advertising etc, and stealing individuals data.
Hesta - come back in 6months and then a year and tell us how your family is doing.

Although I have never posted much in the past Prettybird I have always enjoyed the lovely pictures of someone’s garden that are sometimes posted - think it might have been yours? If so, it’s lovely

It has been very interesting to see the ramping up of Leave visitors to the threads in recent days, always a sign of another key moment.

But the quality remains low. Generally a cycle of repeated soundbites and recycled slogans because there is - still - fuck all substance.

And repeatedly engaging and asking for more will be seen as bullying and "the nasty person wants answers " before a flounce or two.

Rinse and repeat.

That said, if Brexit is to be sorted, it's unlikely to be in the forums of Mumsnet, because ... well it's the forums of Mumsnet, not the forums of Mumsnet and UK-EU working group discussions.