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Brexit

Westminstenders: It's oh so quiet...

989 replies

RedToothBrush · 04/02/2019 15:14

It's oh so quiet // It's oh so still // You're all alone // And so peaceful until

You ring the news // Bim bam // You shout and you yell // Hi ho ho // You broke the spell // Gee, this is swell you almost have a fit // Brexit is fab and I got hit // There's no mistake get on with it

'Til it's over and then // It's nice and quiet //
Shh shh // But soon again // Shh shh // Uh oh let's start a big riot

You blow a fuse // Zing boom // The devil cuts loose // Zing boom // What's the use
Wow bam // Of leaving the EU

It's gone quiet.

May was supposed to go on a tour of the EU to get concessions. She hasn't.

Instead we are currently stuck in an internal never ending debate about Alternative Arrangements (which is being abbreved too A. A. by less convinced souls) and how Germany got all the money from Marshall Aid (it didn't) and how navy ships can suddenly sprout front opening hulls to become roll on roll off ferries to emulate the spirit of Dunkirk. One of our greatest ever military defeats, which merely had good PR.

The idea that there is going to be any shift in position between now and 14th Feb seems unlikely. It suits the EU and it suits the ERG to be blunt about it. It does not suit the UK national interest though.

Instead our livihoods and futures are slowly drip, drip, dripping away. Invisible to those loved up on the idea of Leaving. But like a newly wed, how long does that feeling last? 42% of British marriages end in divorce after all. When do people fall out of love with Brexit?

The revelation of the need for the WAIB is scary too. The WAIB is the Withdrawal Agreement Implementation Bill. You can read more about it here:
threadreaderapp.com/thread/1091734003265224708.html
Well I say you can read about it, but from the thread you can see that the WAIB hasn't been published yet. And for us to Brexit without a legal and constitutional nightmare parliament needs to pass both the WA And the WAIB. And if you thought it was difficult to get the WA through just wait until you clap eyes on the WAIB details.

With this in mind there are noises from the ERG about an A50 extension. Y'know the one we can't have unless the EU think it's it their interests too.

mlexmarketinsight.com/insights-center/editors-picks/brexit/europe/the-uk-rips-out-its-eu-law-drip,-only-to-hook-up-to-another
More on the WAIB.

Of course there is a more sinister explanation: May does indeed intend to no deal and or use civil contingency law to pass the WAIB in whatever form she sees fit without parliamentary scrutiny.

Tick, tick, tick.

A friend told me today not to worry about brexit as "we survived before and we'll survive again". I didn't say much. My history lessons were rather grimmer in reminding me, that the ones who didn't survive don't get to be so optimistic.

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BigChocFrenzy · 05/02/2019 15:43

her idea of "amendment" = render near useless

The ERG want it completely out, because they don't accept any restriction on their Trump FTA

  • maybe in the next couple of weeks the US Congress will help us out here wrt the backstop
Motheroffourdragons · 05/02/2019 15:46

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Anothercalaisvolunteer · 05/02/2019 15:48

At the risk of derailing the thread DGRossetti according to the people (including children) Ive spoken to who have been caught by dogs they are quite effective. But of course they are a finite resource and lots of trucks aren't fully or partially checked.

BigChocFrenzy · 05/02/2019 15:49

Sam Coates Times Retweeted Jack Maidment@jrmaidment

New: Theresa May rules out deleting the backstop from the Withdrawal Agreement.

She said: "I am not proposing to persuade people to accept a deal that does not contain that insurance policy for the future."
Insists it will be changed though.

Will anger some Brexiteers.

< a time limited "insurance policy" is pretty useless - sods law: the damage always happens soon after the time limit >

BigChocFrenzy · 05/02/2019 15:50

mother In the unlikely event of a bank getting into real trouble, withdrawals or transfers may be frozen or limited

In the more likely event of a serious Sterling crash, the government might just impose currency controls

  • which we had until MrsT abolished them for the SM - which would restrict the amount of money that can be electronically transferred abroad. (This would of course also involve forbidding large cash withdrawals to circumvent this)
Somerville · 05/02/2019 15:51

Speaking of MN and trolling policy... they should send “A J Finn” their Talk Guildlines, renamed “Lessons to live by.”

Somerville · 05/02/2019 15:51

Gosh, sorry, wrong thread!
Blush

mrslaughan · 05/02/2019 15:51

I completely get the Nissan production manager - being brought up in a colony - a huge amount of the language appalls me - the arrogance- swaths of brits seem to realise the world has moved on. Unfortunately this is the country that we have chosen to build our lives......

My brother went to a lunch which Bojo addressed in his role as FS in NZ. (Bro runs a v large -NZ scale- primary industry import/export business). Bro thought he was a complete dick , but also BoJo's address was completely tone deaf. Forgetting that interms of trade the uk has screwed NZ over in history. It was apparently all condescending- and the wonderful white man coming to save the colonies. It went down about as well as a cup of cold sick. Which demonstrates just how far ex-colonial countries have matured and moved in, pity that this is not recognised here.

chillinapot · 05/02/2019 15:51

Ive spoken to who have been caught by dogs they are quite effective
I knew a lady with a terror of dogs, because of how the Nazis used them on her and other children.

I wonder if France will allow camps for English refugees?

PestyMachtubernahme · 05/02/2019 15:52

Another paranoid Tory MP who believes europhile conspiracy theories.

The EU do not want us to reap the benefits of their Union whilst taking no political or financial responsibility.

Oh and if Murrison can provide further details of "Other means" and "alternative arrangements" I hope he tells the people and the EU. The backstop is there, if we can't or don't make other arrangements NOT instead. Muppet.

BigChocFrenzy · 05/02/2019 15:55

Reuters Top Newss@Reuters*

Existing technology can be used to avoid hard border in Ireland: UK minister (Javid)
https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1PS08I?twitterr_impression=true
...
Fabian Zuleeg Retweeted Peter Geoghegan@PeterKGeoghegan

This isn’t accurate, of course,
but what’s almost never pointed out is that if Brexiters really believe tech can solve the border, they have nothing to worry about and should sign the WA.

Backstop only kicks in if all other alternatives don’t work.

So what’s the concern?

Anothercalaisvolunteer · 05/02/2019 15:58

Mother I'm very aware of that as I'm one of the people who hands out sleeping bags and who talks to refugees and sees their injuries from the police. It's utter hell out there.

BigChocFrenzy · 05/02/2019 16:00

Tom Newton Dunn@tnewtondunn

Tomorrow's agenda for Cabinet:

  • Zimbabwe
  • Local Government finance
  • Brexit

So the PM doesn't want to have a big row about the backstop tomorrow.

Cabinet source: "She's left Brexit until the end again, when everyone is bored rigid and hungry".

RedToothBrush · 05/02/2019 16:00

When did this world become so horrible?

This is a question that I've always had trouble with.

It has always been horrible. Its just we have been shielded from it.

When studying we were shown BBC footage that was deemed not suitable for broadcast. This was the mid 1990s and what was unacceptable then is now broadcast on the 6pm news because of the the effect of rolling 24 hour news and the desire to 'be first' with the news and globalised news (channels like al jazera always showed things that were deemed to be shocking, but are now normalised).

For anyone who wasn't aware of what was going on in the rest of the world, the shock of this change does make it appear that the rest of the world has changed.

Its just we are more exposed to uncomfortable truths which our government was often responsible for or complicit with.

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Tanith · 05/02/2019 16:02

“Not disagreeing it would be a positive, but why do you think the camps will go ?“

Maybe Brexit is all part of their cunning plan to make the UK so poor that no-one wants to come here any more and thus the illegal immigration situation is solved.

Truly worthy of Baldrick, that one.

LonelyandTiredandLow · 05/02/2019 16:02

I think the Nissan man and the Argentinian I know are thinking along the same lines. I suspect many people around the world are feeling similar tbh.

Am assuming our livestock database is based in EU too? So adding to the slurry we could have swine flu or worse, if we just wave untreated animals though? From what I gather this wasn't very well controlled until the bird flu fiasco but think I remember reading the EU took control as fast as it could? I may be wrong there.

RedToothBrush · 05/02/2019 16:08

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Contingencies_Act_2004
For anyone wanting a quick summary of the CCA.

Note the part where it says:

According to the leading commentary on the Act, by Clive Walker and Jim Broderick:

The Government’s handling of risks and emergencies in recent years has failed to inspire public confidence. In a range of crises, from the Foot and Mouth outbreak through to the grounds for war in Iraq, official predictions or capabilities have been found wanting. The Civil Contingencies Act 2004 tenders reassurance by the promise of systemic planning and activity in civil resilience, though defence lies beyond its scope. The wide-ranging powers in the Act have the capability of delivering on the promise. But, as shall be revealed in this book, efforts will be hampered because the legislation is hesitant and uneven.

However, Peter Hitchens has criticised the Act as totalitarian, describing it thus; "The Civil Contingencies Act can be used to turn Britain into a dictatorship overnight, if politicians can find an excuse to activate it."

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ElenadeClermont · 05/02/2019 16:08

So Theresa's solution for the Irish backstop is to host a football World cup with Ireland?!
Pet shop boys are right we need to let stupidity to take over.

RedToothBrush · 05/02/2019 16:09

The main problem with the CCA is how vague it is in its definition of emergency and how wide ranging its powers are, if someone were to say that an emergency situation has arisen.

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Anothercalaisvolunteer · 05/02/2019 16:09

I do wonder when I speak to people in Calais whether they realise what they are trying to come over to Confused I have conversations where they ask 'uk-europe finish'? Poor sods. Fancy getting all the way here and then ending up in Brexit UK.

It also worries me from a having seen how close any country is to collapse and violence. We don't have special magic powers here and if food gets short, things get difficult.

RedToothBrush · 05/02/2019 16:11

I think the Nissan man and the Argentinian I know are thinking along the same lines. I suspect many people around the world are feeling similar tbh.

My SIL mentioned a work college in the NHS who thought the same. They were able to vote though were not a UK national. They have since returned to their home country. Apparently they thought it funny to vote to Leave.

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LonelyandTiredandLow · 05/02/2019 16:23

Anecdotally a leaver who de-friended me on FB shortly after TM got in had loudly admitted on FB that he voted to get Cameron out, as they would have another GE. I wonder why he deleted me when it didn't happen Hmm. I am sure he is now a "I voted for No Deal" faithful at this point in time.

LonelyandTiredandLow · 05/02/2019 16:26

I wish time-hop would kick in and remind Leavers of all of their posts. It would confuse so many of them. Although undoubtedly it would be "a conspiracy!" and they never typed that (despite 'Michelle' commenting "Yeh rite hun" with spangly hearts x10 like she does for every post on the subject).

DGRossetti · 05/02/2019 16:34

Anecdotally a leaver who de-friended me on FB shortly after TM got in had loudly admitted on FB that he voted to get Cameron out, as they would have another GE. I wonder why he deleted me when it didn't happen hmm. I am sure he is now a "I voted for No Deal" faithful at this point in time.

Or voted Remain. Or didn't vote ?

Motheroffourdragons · 05/02/2019 16:40

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