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Brexit

Westminstenders: Amendment Fail

977 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 09:26

The EU's deputy chief negotiator Sabine Weyand said yesterday that there is a high risk of the UK crashing out of the EU without a deal by accident.

She also made a point of saying that the Withdrawal Agreement was shaped hugely by the parameters set by the UK and not the EU.

'We’re not going to reopen the Agreement. The result of the negotiation has been very much shaped by the UK negotiators, much more than they actually get credit for. This is a bit like snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. The backstop was very much shaped by UK.'

She also made the observation that
'In fact much of the conversation is uninhibited by any knowledge of what is actually in the WA.'

She reaffirmed the point that from the EU point of view that a time-limit to the Irish backstop defeated the purpose of having one. Remember the point of the backstop is to protect the integrity of the GFA.

Tonight is shaping up as follows:
Murrison II has been dropped in favour of the much more vague Brady Amendment. The government are now backing this, which would tie May into having to go back to the EU and talk about the backstop. Which if you refer to the above, was instigated and agreed to in no small part by May's own team.

The ERG are not happy about this, as they think they are being stitched up to be fully signed up to the WA.

The Brady amendment is being sold as enabling a mystery alternative solution. Which the government have said "well you'll have to vote for the amendment to find out what it is". Yes really.

This leaves the ERG split as to what to do. (Remember May needs pretty much a full house of support for a majority). And the DUP, after Sammy Wilson said today it was time for us to 'exploit the chaos of the EU', are also holding off making a decision.

The ERG then instead said that they will support an amendment by the PM herself which is crystal clear in its intent to remove the backstop and reopen the WA. Something May had ruled out. Then the ERG came up with the Malthouse Compromise and May has suddenly said that she will unilaterally reopen the WA.... Despite the EU ruling this out yesterday.

Remember Weyland said about the concept of Max Fac as an alternative to the backstop:
'We looked at every border on this earth, every border EU has with a 3rd country - there’s simply no way you can do away with checks & controls. The negotiators have not been able to explain them to us and that’s not their fault, it’s because they don’t exist.'

Before stressing:
'I still think the Political Declaration is a work of art because it bridges the unbridgeable and it leaves choices open. It doesn’t pretend to be able to make choices that have not been made in the UK. That’s the area where we do have room for manoeuvre.'

In other words, this is all in OUR hands to work out between ourselves and not the EU. We STILL have to decide what we want. But it STILL has to answer certain questions and issues that the EU have.

As far as numbers stand, the latest for the Brady was that between 20 (according to the gov whips) and 40 (according to the ERG) ERG rebels were holding out, whilst up to 10 remain tories are thinking of rebelling. Thats not anywhere near enough for May without large numbers of Labour rebels. BUT that was before the Malthouse Compromise came out.

Meanwhile the Cooper-Boles amendment has finally got a three line whip supporting it from Labour. But there is no word on what Tories might do. The last word on numbers was that there were just 3 votes in it - so it needs ALL MPs even the lazy ones to show up. Its proper squeaky bum time on that one. It even raises the possibility of the spectacle of the Speaker voting. And as previously mentioned if it passes as well as Brady it becomes sticky as to how it would work, the EU might not go for it anyway and it doesn't necessarily stop No Deal is certain situations.

In reality the worst outcome from the amendment votes today would be that nothing passes. It doesn't move us forward in anyway. Even Brady passing would lead us somewhere rather than the state of purgatory we are currently mired in.

Might the new 'Maltman Compromise' between Mogg, Morgan and Baker complete with its 'frontstop' instead of backstop and its magic new protocol which everyone will agree to but is completely be devoid of detail, be the way forward instead? Boris Johnson has declared it a breakthrough.

Of course not. Its best described as everyone's unicorns strapped together and its complete lack of compatibility with the EU's criteria make it a time wasting exercise just to make the Tories feel good about themselves and united in their belief that the EU is being mean to them.

Its almost as if those writing the Malthouse Compromise didn't understand what the EU have been saying all along...

In reality its a political device to whip May with and to waste time and to try and frame the EU as bad guys once again, not a serious proposal. But with widespread support within the Tory party May is going to find it hard to kill it off, even when the EU do.

If you weren't already going cross eyed by this point, this should finish you off. The Brady Amendment is vague enough to accomodate the Malthouse Compromise within it. Which might be the thing that gets the Brady Amendment through in the end anyway. Who knows?

If you've managed to follow all this even vaguely, then you are doing well. Please do ask questions if you are confused as hell, we'll all try and make some sense of it together!!!

Westministenders Abbreviation FAQ

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RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 20:11

twitter.com/IanMurrayMP/status/1090340437053841409
Here's the pound plummetting.

Ayes 290 Nos 322

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RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 20:11

I. Spelman no-deal amendment
Tabled by the longstanding Tory MP and former environment minister Caroline Spelman, with the backing of more than 115 MPs from various parties, this states that the UK will not leave the EU without a deal. It is only advisory and has no legislative force.

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lonelyplanetmum · 29/01/2019 20:12

I don't see revoke in her vocabulary either but she can't counteract Parliament and stick with the no deal path, if instructed to avoid no deal by MPs?

(I meant command not commend btw.)

CromeYello · 29/01/2019 20:12

Fwiw I don't think she'll revoke either. Better double up on prepping now Sad

MissMalice · 29/01/2019 20:12

What a depressing evening.

DangermousesSidekick · 29/01/2019 20:12

£ has fallen against both the € and the $ after that rejection apparently. An omen.

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 20:12

The Reeves vote was also worse than I'd expect.

The actual votes will be dead interesting...

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colouringinpro · 29/01/2019 20:13

Me too brexitgarden Sad

My exh thinks EU will renegotiate on the backstop. I don't. AIBU?!

MissMalice · 29/01/2019 20:14

The EU has already said they’re set to reject the Brady amendment.

Inniu · 29/01/2019 20:14

@BrexitGarden

You are on the Titanic and HoC is going to vote to tell the iceberg to move

Hazardswans · 29/01/2019 20:14

They lost Reeves amendment which was a water down coopers....

Fuuuuuck....

Plonkysaurus · 29/01/2019 20:15

Ugh. When is the opposition (official and within tory party) going to find their nerve?

What a fucking mess.

MyNameIsArthur · 29/01/2019 20:15

Why is the Spielman no deal amendment only advisory?

TokyoSushi · 29/01/2019 20:15

I don't think she'll ever revoke. In the end it's going to be her deal, or no deal, I dread to think that the outcome would be.

Increases efforts in forward purchasing

BigChocFrenzy · 29/01/2019 20:15

derxa It would be deserved punishment
A party that would cause this great harm to the country of No Deal is too dangerous to have around

And I'm not of the left
I'm a floating centre voter, the kind the tories needed if they had ever wanted a proper majority again.

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 20:16

Laura Kuenssberg @bbclaurak
Reeves' vote lost as well - while the consequences of tonight's votes are most intense for the govt, failure of Labour efforts may also put more pressure on Corbyn to move further towards another referendum - which he really doesnt want to do

Disagree...

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Hazardswans · 29/01/2019 20:16

Go forth and stockpile, forward purchase and buffer.

Idiots.

Shameful. Deluded. Cunts.

nicoala1 · 29/01/2019 20:17

I still wonder what is the point of all this? EU seems not to be for turning. Hopefully.

I do hope that ROI is ok. It is an EU country just like France and Germany and all the rest of them. But we shall see.

That is not to mention the GFA that many didn't know about in the first place. Honestly, these are our representatives who should know better, and even at this stage don't seem to care much, it is unreal.

mrslaughan · 29/01/2019 20:17

Random18 - but it only saves her party in the short term - once the true horror of brexit actually starts hitting the masses the tories are unelectable for a generation - surely?

BigChocFrenzy · 29/01/2019 20:18

I'm angry at Labour's failure to be an effective opposition
but that's because of Corbyn
and he only became leader by accident, nominated due to misjudged gesture politics of the stupidest kind

Labour are salvageable and trainable
The Tory party should be put down like a rabid dog

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 20:19

Under martial law, the next GE could be in a generation...

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ThereWillBeAdequateFood · 29/01/2019 20:19

Just feel really numb now.

They really think the E.U. are going to budge don’t they. Oh god.

BrexitGarden · 29/01/2019 20:20

Flowers To those on the island of Ireland. We are taking you down with us in the Titanic. I apologise. I voted Corbyn in the last GE.

Oh useless Corbyn!

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 20:20

Hugo Rifkind @hugorifkind
I'd go panic-buying if it wasn't raining.

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Random18 · 29/01/2019 20:21

@mrslaughan I agree. And can only hope so. It’s happened in Scotland and they only won a few seats last time as a protest vote against SNP as Labour are no longer seen as an alternative.