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Brexit

Westminstenders: Amendment Fail

977 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 09:26

The EU's deputy chief negotiator Sabine Weyand said yesterday that there is a high risk of the UK crashing out of the EU without a deal by accident.

She also made a point of saying that the Withdrawal Agreement was shaped hugely by the parameters set by the UK and not the EU.

'We’re not going to reopen the Agreement. The result of the negotiation has been very much shaped by the UK negotiators, much more than they actually get credit for. This is a bit like snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. The backstop was very much shaped by UK.'

She also made the observation that
'In fact much of the conversation is uninhibited by any knowledge of what is actually in the WA.'

She reaffirmed the point that from the EU point of view that a time-limit to the Irish backstop defeated the purpose of having one. Remember the point of the backstop is to protect the integrity of the GFA.

Tonight is shaping up as follows:
Murrison II has been dropped in favour of the much more vague Brady Amendment. The government are now backing this, which would tie May into having to go back to the EU and talk about the backstop. Which if you refer to the above, was instigated and agreed to in no small part by May's own team.

The ERG are not happy about this, as they think they are being stitched up to be fully signed up to the WA.

The Brady amendment is being sold as enabling a mystery alternative solution. Which the government have said "well you'll have to vote for the amendment to find out what it is". Yes really.

This leaves the ERG split as to what to do. (Remember May needs pretty much a full house of support for a majority). And the DUP, after Sammy Wilson said today it was time for us to 'exploit the chaos of the EU', are also holding off making a decision.

The ERG then instead said that they will support an amendment by the PM herself which is crystal clear in its intent to remove the backstop and reopen the WA. Something May had ruled out. Then the ERG came up with the Malthouse Compromise and May has suddenly said that she will unilaterally reopen the WA.... Despite the EU ruling this out yesterday.

Remember Weyland said about the concept of Max Fac as an alternative to the backstop:
'We looked at every border on this earth, every border EU has with a 3rd country - there’s simply no way you can do away with checks & controls. The negotiators have not been able to explain them to us and that’s not their fault, it’s because they don’t exist.'

Before stressing:
'I still think the Political Declaration is a work of art because it bridges the unbridgeable and it leaves choices open. It doesn’t pretend to be able to make choices that have not been made in the UK. That’s the area where we do have room for manoeuvre.'

In other words, this is all in OUR hands to work out between ourselves and not the EU. We STILL have to decide what we want. But it STILL has to answer certain questions and issues that the EU have.

As far as numbers stand, the latest for the Brady was that between 20 (according to the gov whips) and 40 (according to the ERG) ERG rebels were holding out, whilst up to 10 remain tories are thinking of rebelling. Thats not anywhere near enough for May without large numbers of Labour rebels. BUT that was before the Malthouse Compromise came out.

Meanwhile the Cooper-Boles amendment has finally got a three line whip supporting it from Labour. But there is no word on what Tories might do. The last word on numbers was that there were just 3 votes in it - so it needs ALL MPs even the lazy ones to show up. Its proper squeaky bum time on that one. It even raises the possibility of the spectacle of the Speaker voting. And as previously mentioned if it passes as well as Brady it becomes sticky as to how it would work, the EU might not go for it anyway and it doesn't necessarily stop No Deal is certain situations.

In reality the worst outcome from the amendment votes today would be that nothing passes. It doesn't move us forward in anyway. Even Brady passing would lead us somewhere rather than the state of purgatory we are currently mired in.

Might the new 'Maltman Compromise' between Mogg, Morgan and Baker complete with its 'frontstop' instead of backstop and its magic new protocol which everyone will agree to but is completely be devoid of detail, be the way forward instead? Boris Johnson has declared it a breakthrough.

Of course not. Its best described as everyone's unicorns strapped together and its complete lack of compatibility with the EU's criteria make it a time wasting exercise just to make the Tories feel good about themselves and united in their belief that the EU is being mean to them.

Its almost as if those writing the Malthouse Compromise didn't understand what the EU have been saying all along...

In reality its a political device to whip May with and to waste time and to try and frame the EU as bad guys once again, not a serious proposal. But with widespread support within the Tory party May is going to find it hard to kill it off, even when the EU do.

If you weren't already going cross eyed by this point, this should finish you off. The Brady Amendment is vague enough to accomodate the Malthouse Compromise within it. Which might be the thing that gets the Brady Amendment through in the end anyway. Who knows?

If you've managed to follow all this even vaguely, then you are doing well. Please do ask questions if you are confused as hell, we'll all try and make some sense of it together!!!

Westministenders Abbreviation FAQ

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GhostofFrankGrimes · 29/01/2019 20:01

This is heading towards no deal, there is just enough arrogance across the house that thinks the EU will bend.

BigChocFrenzy · 29/01/2019 20:02

If we end up with No Deal, let's make sure we have no Tory Party either
Decades of harm to the country rather than split their party
Unforgiveable

Ignore everything else, imo
Anyone but Tories
Corbyn is an old fart who'll be out soon and a lot of talent coming through

VanillaSugarr · 29/01/2019 20:02

It’s time to buy those lottery tickets on Friday - £100 million this week Sad

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 20:02

Steven Swinford @Steven_Swinford
Worth remembering it's not the end for the Cooper amendment.

Expect it to be brought back to the Commons in two weeks time ahead of the meaningful vote.

But even if it succeeds second time round, it will face an uphill struggle to get through Parliament in time for Brexit

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TheElementsSong · 29/01/2019 20:04

Is it weird that I'm unsurprised (we've essentially known the numbers for some time) but I'm still sad anyway?

BigChocFrenzy · 29/01/2019 20:04

Reeves is not binding, so unimportant

Somerville · 29/01/2019 20:04

These arrogant, careless bastards.

DangermousesSidekick · 29/01/2019 20:04

Thanks for that ray of hope RTB. I expect it will also then have an uphill battle getting an extension past the EU who will be even more heartily sick of us by then.

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 20:04

David Henig @DavidHenigUK
Increasingly thinking the Brady amendment and the announcement of the next vote on Feb 13 has taken the importance out of today's vote. No incentive on EU to do anything but hold firm, and wait for next steps.

Yep, back in two weeks for another deal v no-deal vote. But I think no-deal is probably now the most likely outcome, just, and the ERG will be celebrating another victory over conservative moderates tonight. But another round in two weeks...

Also time for referendum campaigners to change direction. On the evidence of tonight there is virtually no prospect of them succeeding.

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Crimson72 · 29/01/2019 20:05

Is this it now? Does this mean a no deal is certain? I can't believe what I'm reading here?

Does anyone know?!

Whisky2014 · 29/01/2019 20:05

Sorry I dont believe at if this means anything. If these amendments were approved they could have been taken out again. It's all a pantomime

BigChocFrenzy · 29/01/2019 20:05

Brady amendment expected 8:40 pm
if anyone wants to nip out for Gin

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 20:05

Jessica Elgot @jessicaelgot
Things looking very promising for the Spelman amendment which explicitly rejects no deal - Labour rebels say they are backing that. PM could have a very different sort of mandate to return to Brussels with.

No Deal more likely after tonight, yet Parliament looks to have a majority against it.

WHICH says a lot about Party Before Country.

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OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 29/01/2019 20:06

Will there be time before March 29th for parliament to vote again on may’s withdrawal agreement (with backstop) or is that not an option any more?

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 20:07

Faisal Islam @faisalislam
...as result of last 2 votes Government retains control of Commons timetable -PM now gets a clear run until mid February to get something. Still tho could face non binding defeat on No Deal via Spelman/Dromey - & could get indicative support for junking current backstop via Brady

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BrexitGarden · 29/01/2019 20:07

I am now full on preparing for a crash out, I will make the best of it despite wanting to avoid this.

Disillusioned with MPs.

TheElementsSong · 29/01/2019 20:07

I don't really know whether No Deal is any more likely than it was?

I'd been operating on the assumption that "majority of Parliament being against No Deal" was a load of hot air in the sense that maybe there was a majority who realised No Deal is bad for the country, but feared displeasing The Will would be worse [for their seats].

DangermousesSidekick · 29/01/2019 20:08

WHICH says a lot about Party Before Country.

We really need change. Abolish whips for a start. Possibly abolish all political parties. Or require a certain percentage of government posts to be drawn from different parties other than the main. Or get rid of FPTP. So many possibilities, and here "we" are "choosing" the road to absolute madness.

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 20:08

Christopher Hope @christopherhope
Is #Brexit coming off life support?

Its starting to look VERY much like May's WA or no Deal.

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lonelyplanetmum · 29/01/2019 20:08

So if Spelman amendment goes through and explicitly rejects no deal .

If nothing else commends a majority will she revoke? She then has a conflict between a command from the sovereign Parliament on behalf of the people and the advisory command from those people!

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 20:09

Stephen Bush @stephenkb
I think that might be a strange new Brexit record: biggest number of abstentions against the whip.

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derxa · 29/01/2019 20:09

If we end up with No Deal, let's make sure we have no Tory Party either
And there we have it.

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 20:09

If nothing else commends a majority will she revoke?

I do not believe she will.

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BrexitGarden · 29/01/2019 20:09

I feel like we are on the Titanic.Sad

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 20:10

Jim Pickard @PickardJE
and now the Cooper/Boles amendment has lost by 52:48, this is getting a bit weird

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