How scared are you of brexit?

[onegrapeshortofabunch]

Because I’m trying to work out if I’m a normal amount of scared or if I’m losing it.

I’m terrified of the recession that is looming after brexit, increased food prices, reduced public spending, which will lead to more homelessness and misery and perhaps even more violence on the streets. I’m terrified of the NHS being privatised, of not having access to cheap fruit and vegetables, of not being able to travel to europe.

Perhaps most of all I’m scared of a return to the troubles in Northern Ireland. I can’t velieve people would rather have a border than a backstop.

I’m scared of the way Eu migrants are being treated and how normal it has become for the Eu to be hated and mocked and blamed for everything. I’m scared of what this is doing to my friends, my colleagues, my community. I feel complicit and I don’t know how to protest or complain.

I’m a Londoner, and I’m scared of the ‘metropolitan elite’ conspiracy theories that both the left and the right seen to hold about people like me (I guess I’m what could be called ‘a centrist’). It makes me scared to talk about any of this.

I’m terrified for the future of our country, for my son’s future, for my elderly parents’ future, for our jobs. We are small, community minded people with small incomes. I spend a lot of my time volunteering in the local community. I feel like I should have been getting rich and hoarding money instead because it’s all going to be dog eat dog very soon.

I am losing sleep. I can’t concentrate at work. I find myself bursting into tears and getting angry for no reason other than a total; overwhelming fear of the future. I feel like my future has been taken away. Am i going mad? Or is it just the uncertainty? Or am I really part of an elite that can’t handle change?

For what it’s worth, I think the Eu needs to reform and the uk needs a big political shake up. But I think brexit is going to make all our problems worse, not better.

Does anyone else feel this way?

It's interesting bubblewire that you demand facts and certainty from me whereas speculation is otherwise considered to be a strong possibility. Look at the idiots who are talking about troops on the streets and £6 loaves of bread. They seem to believe this shit. The UK doesn't have a culture of civil unrest. This is probably about as bad as it gets and the worst of it is strong words over the family dinner table. As for £6 loaves of bread, enterprising non EU countries will import wheat at a price which will allow us to make affordable bread. Having said that the fact is nobody knows what the unintended consequences of Brexit will be, except of course mumsnetters who know for certain we are all doomed

I think it was the British Retail Consortium and major supermarkets who said we are fucked with no deal @Bowchicawowow . But what do they know, eh?

As for £6 loaves of bread, enterprising non EU countries will import wheat at a price which will allow us to make affordable bread

Yes and it can all go stale sitting in the lorry logjams on the motorways.

Bow I know you didn't ask me, but I do sometimes hope Brexit will lower house prices, and that would be a good thing. In London, it would be also be good if it meant that foreign investors buying up large swathes of buy to let property were put off.

But, I worry that the opposite would happen. Right wing Brexiteers talk about the UK having to emulate Singapore after Brexit - i.e. a low tax economy to encourage investors and businesses. This would mean more private ownership in the hands of big business, not less. And we would be subject to the political forces of the Asian trading blocs.

In smaller cities, towns and rural areas this might not be a problem. And a housing price crash might make homes more 'affordable.' But how will people afford them if there are no jobs because of a massive recession?

And what about new homes? The housebuilding industry relies on European labour. Perhaps that labour will be replaced by British workers, but with the cost of living rising they will either be paid too badly to survive or (more likely) the work will simply not be there at all as housing companies won't want to build more houses they're unable to sell.

Meanwhile, public services will be cut to the bone (low tax economy + recession), so there will be reduced housing benefit, of course no more social housing, and a dramatic rise in homelessness. The only thing I think would help would be to reverse the squatting laws of the 70s, and make it legal for people to squat again. But I can't see the tories ding that.

Lastly, don't underestimate how much our bogus economy relies on low wages and rising house prices. When my mum moved into a care home in 2016, I sold her house to pay for the care fees. The house sold for 25% less than expected because the referendum happened between when we accepted the offer and when we completed. The care home fees, of course, have not reduced. State subsidised care homes in her borough do not exist, so state funded patients are sent to private care homes like the one she pays for. And her fees are the subsidy - the state doesn't contribute to overheads, only staff costs. In other words, the state is relying on elderly people releasing the equity from their homes to pay for its own social and legal duty. Just one small example of how fucked we are as a country, how fragile things already were, and how much our politicians have gambled with our futures.

Look @Bowchicawowow, you asked me a question which is impossible to answer without more detail. Do I think it would be a good thing if house prices fell? Yes it could be a good thing and no it could be a terrible thing. It depends on the context in which that fall happens and the other economic circumstances surrounding it.

bellinisurge

I know the British Retail Consortium have warned against no deal leading to shortages of fresh foods. As I understand things, this wouldn't affect crops like wheat which have a longer shelf life. The food they were more concerned about are salads etc. Obviously this is incredibly worrying, but in the age of global warming there is an argument about this in any event. I don't trust the supermarkets whatsoever. They only care about their profit margins. I speak as a Remainer bordering on a 'Lexiteeer."

Bowchicawowow

The english do have a history of rioting.

How long do you think it will be before enterprising wheat growing countries export to us? and why would they do it at an affordable cost? you know, supply and demand!

We have relatively certainty within the EU, leave and we enter the realms of uncertainty, as Bell says, its the Gov and business saying no-deal is a disaster, MNs are just broadcasting this info :)

bubblewire That is my point. Nobody knows. There could be good unintended consequences. There could be bad unintended consequences.

When did we last riot? Try to overthrow the Government? Try to do what the French are now actually doing?

Despite my username I'm not particularly worried.
The only concern I have is the availability of Thyroxine since I don't have a thyroid but I'm not losing sleep over it. What will be, will be.
Everything else isn't a big concern. Like another previous poster said some of us have already lived through very tough times and come out of them ok.
I've also lived in countries where fresh fruit and veg and other supplies aren't readily available but managed perfectly ok.
I've been a remainer from the start but my patience is wearing thin with how some remainers are scaring people and so determined that we will be living in a black hole of nothingness.
Change can be terrifying and I'm sure we are in for some tougher times but some people need not be paralysed with fear.
I've lived through some awful stuff and times, not that keen to repeat them but they also taught me how to cope, brought some relationships closer together and made us more grateful and accepting etc.

We can't change what lies ahead. Worry is a waste of energy. It's always easy to say don't stress than it is to do, but I'm just going to see what's what and deal with it accordingly when and if shit happens.

@Bowchicawowow The crash of the late 80s and early 90s caused tens of thousands of people to lose their homes and those that didn't were in negative equity for years, which is not a comfortable position for anyone. I wouldn't want to see that sort of fall, no.

And I think it's true to say that outside of London and the South East some areas have struggled to recover from 2008.

bubblewire The fact that people are still recovering from the austerity cuts shows the ignorance and stupidity of the Government calling a referendum. They didn't know the mood of the people. Nobody gave a shit about these people until they voted in their thousands and cancelled out the votes of the affluent and the privileged who are now up in arms at their audacity.

An article about the British attitude towards rioting.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/10/brexit-riots-france

That is my point. Nobody knows. There could be good unintended consequences. There could be bad unintended consequences.

And that is exactly why I am worried - the uncertainty. Yes, it could all be unicorns and sunlit uplands, it could all be the worst crisis since WW2, it could be somewhere in between.

I've also lived through awful times in other countries @Worriedju , including a spell under martial law and with food rations (actually still have the book).
I doubt very much it will come to any of that but I am a prepper so I can hope for the best more easily.

I literally am not thinking of it at all. What will be will be. I don't see the point in worrying about something thats not even happened yet, catastrophizing is pointless.

I know it is scary bubblewire. I don't have much faith in politicians but I do believe that people (us) can overcome and find ways to solve the problems which occur. In the meantime, take whatever precautions you think are necessary. My greatest hope for the future is that we get a new generation of brilliant politicians rather than the shower of shite we currently have.

@Bowchicawowow on that I agree with you. Except that not everyone who voted Remain is affluent, far from it. And there are many Remainers who did and do give a shit about those people, many whose jobs involve trying to make things better. Not everyone swallows the shit they're fed by the right wing media.

I am so pleased we could find some common ground bubblewire.

I know it is scary bubblewire. I don't have much faith in politicians but I do believe that people (us) can overcome and find ways to solve the problems which occur. In the meantime, take whatever precautions you think are necessary. My greatest hope for the future is that we get a new generation of brilliant politicians rather than the shower of shite we currently have.

I think I see where you are coming from, but I don't have much optimism. Think of all the working class people who vote Tory, buy the Daily Hate Mail etc etc and are happy to shit on those less well off than themselves.

It is a bit naive to think all Remain voters are minted. You obviously haven't met my family. Including my extended family. When we have met up over the last year or so for various family events we kind of sidle up to the subject. Turns out the most affluent ones voted Leave.

Bow what does global warming have to do with this?! Although I have heard that unicorns prefer an ambient climate for breeding

tellmewhenthespaceshiplands I was referring to the types of food the supermarkets are worried about not being able to import.

Ok Bow got you.

Bow we ve rioted fairly regularly over the years

The French rioters are 10s of 1000s out of 80m, its easy to think france is on fire.

Ref food imports -here in the Tamar Valley, there is lots of empty green houses that used to grow Toms and lettuce but they need heating to compete/multi crop (which is why they closed down ) fossil fuel heating adds to CO2.

Better the southern Europeans grow them & we in N.Europe with our engineering science expertise find cleaner ways to transport goods around europe, so hydrogen and battery lorries - hydrogen trains soon to be used in Germany.

The UK dissapearing off into the Atlantic helps no one.

I did say if ...
I am about 3/4 sure that we'll extend and then get some kind of customs union deal...because crashing out just seems too stupid.
But there's 1/4 of me that's like 'Well look at America/Trump'...

I think the panicking/catastrophizing might be a personality type thing. I'm the type of person that likes to have a 5 year plan with options A (it'll be fine), B (bit rubbish, wait it out) C (£6 loaves of bread, plan new career as goatherd in rural Italy)