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Brexit

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Original poster

To ask why would anyone want no deal?

631 replies

guinea36 · 20/01/2019 11:17

Watching Sunday morning political shows. A few politicians suggesting they would prefer no deal if necessary. These people are presumably intelligent and educated
Yet they believe - although I struggle to see it - that ultimately it will be better for the country economically in the long run. Just wondering what the theory is behind this belief?

OP posts:
1tisILeClerc · 22/01/2019 10:30

{We're not all five years old you know.}
In that case those that voted leave should duly acknowledge that they are destroying the lives and prosperity of the whole of the UK and to a lesser extent the whole of Europe, rather than continuing the 'it will be great' comments.
It is particularly annoying that none of the 17 million have any bloody clue as to HOW the UK is going to get back to where it was pre 2016, let along the unicorns that we were promised.

Mistigri · 22/01/2019 10:30

Can't have the first two, sorry.

MissMalice · 22/01/2019 10:31

If the leave campaign was about voting for a no deal Brexit, can anyone show me the literature that outlined for voters what that would entail?

FishesaPlenty · 22/01/2019 10:34

You simple example isn't correct at all.

No, it's entirely correct up to the point I was making. And that is that a trade deal isn't needed for trade to happen. Neither do you need an all-encompassing comprehensive trade deal in order to have a trade deal covering specific goods and services.

The only point I was making is that 1tisILeClerc's assertion that no business can be done outside a trade deal is entirely incorrect.

Mistigri · 22/01/2019 10:35

The leave campaign leaflets were littered with references to Switzerland and Norway. Both the official leave campaign and leave.eu were very confident about deals - eg "easiest deal in human history" from a current government minister, all the bollocks about German car companies. (Bit of a pivot to French apple growers on this thread but that's bollocks too, just slightly less tired bollocks).

No one posting on this thread supported no deal until very recently.

missesbiggens · 22/01/2019 10:36

I don't believe I have been economical with the truth at all. Opinions, especially in this forum, are very polarised. It matters not one iota what I say, or how rational my arguments are. I have been clear I voted to leave the EU and why I did that over recent months on here. I haven't changed one single opinion, and nobody understands me any better than they did at my first post. That's UK politics for you. I enjoy the hysterics on this board, and can't resist trying to to argue back, but I am not under any illusion that I will ever agree with you, or you with me. But one thing I am is 100% open and honest that I am a leaver, I would vote leave again and again.

MissMalice · 22/01/2019 10:38

But one thing I am is 100% open and honest that I am a leaver, I would vote leave again and again.

What does your ideal post-Brexit UK look like?

missesbiggens · 22/01/2019 10:40

It looks like a UK that is not a member of the EU. What about yours?

Mistigri · 22/01/2019 10:42

You won't point to a 2016 thread where you supported no deal because there isn't one. That's what it comes down to.

No deal is really quite a recent development, and most of the people posting on here on support of it either weren't on mumsnet then (some joined very recently Grin) or were supporting some other form of Brexit of the "easiest deal" variety.

Mistigri · 22/01/2019 10:43

It looks like a UK that is not a member of the EU

This is of course perfectly compatible with the WA and also with a Norway type deal.

bellinisurge · 22/01/2019 10:44

If I'm wrong, @missesbiggens , it's a bit of egg on my face and good news for everyone. I can live with that. But if you are wrong about No Deal it will be a catastrophe for everyone. Is that what you actually want?
I can live with WA. We leave. Leave is what people voted for. We can make a shit deal work somehow .
No Deal is a full on national disaster. Even Gove agrees with this and he's the one who said we have too many experts.

MissMalice · 22/01/2019 10:44

And what does that entail? I am genuinely interested. To me it does look like an Armageddon of sorts and I’m curious to understand what other people think the UK will look like when they are able to see the positives.

I voted to remain and I still think that’s the best thing for the UK so I don’t really have an ideal post-Brexit UK, except I suppose to rejoin the EU or to have a BINO type set up. I cannot imagine a post-Brexit UK that is better than the arrangement we have in the UK - hence my question to you.

missesbiggens · 22/01/2019 10:45

Mistigri, honestly, read and comprehend my last few posts for your answer. It is in there, I promise.

bellinisurge · 22/01/2019 10:46

@missesbiggens , typical No Deal nonsense "I refer the honourable gentleman to the reply I gave a few moments ago". Rather than answering the question. ReesMogg playbook.

frumpety · 22/01/2019 10:47

So we leave with no deal in 66 days time. We currently have no actual trade deals ready for this date, so we revert to WTO. For how long ? That is my question to leavers, how long do you think it will take to organise the trade deals that we would prefer to have ? weeks ? months ? years ? How much more preferential do you think these deals will be in comparison to our current deals, given that the whole world can see what a weak position we will be in ?

missesbiggens · 22/01/2019 10:49

Unfortunately the WA contains terms that could keep us in the EU indefinitely but without any representation at all. I don't wish to project motives on anyone in the EU, or any former UK prime ministers, or any MPs that don't like the result, but the WA leaves us open to future UK governments who don't wish to honour the referendum result using it to ease us back in. To me, it appears to be the whole purpose of it. You won't agree of course, but that is my (justified) reasoning.

1tisILeClerc · 22/01/2019 10:49

As I have said on other threads, I WAS a remain voter.
In the 2 1/2 years since then it is very apparent that the mindset of the UK politically is not really compatible with the aims of the EU. It is of course a tragedy for the thousands of companies and personal relationships which tie the UK with the rest of the EU.
A deal needs to be made that extracts the UK from the EU with the least possible 'damage' which the carefully written WA does.
No deal will be catastrophic and will cause the premature deaths of many and as none of the influences of the EU have any bearing on the true problems within the UK, it will all be for nothing.

missesbiggens · 22/01/2019 10:50

Well Bellini, if people read the posts rather than asking the same questions over and over in a different way, it would save me my fingers for typing thoughtful responses. As I answered the questions within the last half an hour, I don't see why it's so hard to do me the honour of reading them properly.

MissMalice · 22/01/2019 10:53

Was that reply aimed to me rather than Mistigri as you put in your post?
If so, I have read all posts in this thread and don’t quite see a clear answer to my question.
Would you be willing to summarise?

missesbiggens · 22/01/2019 10:56

No MissMalice, it was definitely to MIstigri.

MissMalice · 22/01/2019 11:00

Okay, then I shall continue to wait patiently Smile

1tisILeClerc · 22/01/2019 11:00

{We currently have no actual trade deals ready for this date, so we revert to WTO. For how long ?}
You see even this is not 'true'.
On the morning of 30 March, customs officers will need to have a COMPLETE schedule of what the 'new' tariffs (under WTO rules) will be. That is EVERY single item or component that arrives or departs.
LEGALLY it all has to be signed off before the truck can move. Thus even 'No deal' requires a mountain of new paperwork.

{Unfortunately the WA contains terms that could keep us in the EU indefinitely but without any representation at all.}
They overall thrust of the WA is to leave and is written with this in mind. Of course during the transition period the EU will be very happy to negotiate terms that are as good as possible for both sides. It doesn't need or want to 'screw the UK over', unlike some who are paranoid believe.
It will of course need patient skilled negotiators with a clear mandate for what the UK wants to achieve, at which point the UK may well be stuffed.

bellinisurge · 22/01/2019 11:01

No @missesbiggens , you haven't answered the question. If you were so certain, you would repeat yourself.

Weetabixandshreddies · 22/01/2019 11:07

They overall thrust of the WA is to leave and is written with this in mind

But only when the EU deems fit, not when the UK decides.

Mistigri · 22/01/2019 11:07

read and comprehend my last few posts

I have done, insofar as they are not full of internal contradictions.

You say you want to leave the EU.

What do you think happens on 29th March if the WA is signed? We .. um ... leave the EU, which is what you claim to want.

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