Is Jeremy Corbyn right to insist on ruling out no deal before engaging?

[lazylittlelucy]

I am not a fan of JC and think he has repeatedly fucked up on Brexit but I also think it is IMPERATIVE that we avoid no deal.
Is he right to dig his heels in on this issue or is it just another example of his intransigence?
I'm inclined to think he is right, but are there good reasons why it should not be ruled out?

At least the Lib Dems and SNP are saying what they want, which is no Brexit.

They went into the last GE on that and didn't get the public vote they hoped for, so it's not what the people want. Both Tory and Labour went into the last GE promising Brexit, they got the majority votes, so Brexit has to happen.

People didn’t vote in the last GE based on Brexit.

Nobody seems to care how much "keeping no deal on the table" is costing British business and British people. And other EU countries.

LibDems went into last GE saying they wanted a Referendum, not no Brexit. (sigh) I dunno about SNP. I don't get option to vote for them.

In the last ge tories were the main party for leavers.

JC is refusing to enter talks until no deal is removed from the table precisely because he knows it cannot be removed. Obviously it is an important negotiating tool in all of this - it's the situation that most of us want to avoid. I suspect JC is hoping that TM will say she can't remove no deal but she can compromise on her so called red lines.
Labour want a single market customs union and freedom of movement. TM is diametrically opposed to this. Why should he enter talks when she has already said she won't compromise on these?

If Labour want to remain in the single market and have FoM, can someone explain to me how this is different to today’s position? (ie remaining in the eu). Thanks!

What would be the point of leaving on that basis? It would just mean we'd have to adhere to all the rules with no say. It's a stupid stance to want Brexit on that basis, and they'd never get that through Parliament either. They should be campaigning for remain if that's what they want.

The backstop meant we'd be in a customs union indefinitely. That's why the dup and the hard brexiteers didn't like it. If they wanted us to be in a customs union, they should have voted for the deal. Instead, they voted with 150 fringe nutters who want to drive us off the cliff of no deal, and made it more likely.

It reflects very badly on him that he will not engage. But it won't change any outcome so it's irrelevant to the public whether he does or not. As far as I'm concerned, his lack of engagement will only push more people towards LibDem and at the moment that's a good thing.

I hope so megan. I really want a moderate party to emerge from this mess. It seems moderate Tories and moderate Labour have more in common than the idealogues who have both their parties in a death grip.

He should be engaging at every single opportunity. Cock.

He's dreadful. Anyone with a fragment of commonsense can see it would be foolish to take the threat of no deal off the table.
But socialists over the age of twenty aren't known for their common sense.

It’s been said a number of times on this thread but I think Noblegiraffe put it best:

She can’t take no-deal off the table, no-deal is the table. No-deal will happen on 29th March automatically if May and Corbyn don’t stop arsing around and sort their shit out.

Corbyn’s position is meaningless and a laughable attempt to make a pre-condition that he can point to as a reason for not taking part.

What he wants to do is allow the government to tear itself to pieces (fair enough), bungle its way to a deal or no deal (he doesn’t care which), and in due course win a General Election and say afterwards “oh, I had nothing to do with the exit agreement”. It’s an act of political dishonesty.

He doesn’t care how we leave, so long as we do, because he’s a staunch opponent of the EU.

And colossally foolish and incompetent.

You can't take No Deal off the table unless you have a deal or are at least talking about what deal to make.

No Deal is there till we get a deal.

You can't say you don't want No Deal but refuse to talk about a deal it doesn't make sense.

Quite worrying that this is the only opposition to the Tories

He doesn’t care- he just wants May out and the keys to number 10. He has no best interests at heart just his own

Yep. And everything he does proves this.

Voting against the deal was a really stupid thing to do without having a back up plan.

Obviously it is an important negotiating tool in all of this - it's the situation that most of us want to avoid

Bizarre logic that has got us to this unholy mess, threatening no-deal has achieved nothing at all.
It's like saying to your house insurance provider "if you don't lower my premiums, i'll burn my house down"

Labour are the official opposition and Brexit is a Tory policy, its up to them to either negotiate a deal that can get through the HoC or revoke A50 as its not possible to achieve.
May signed this deal !

Threatening to damage our eu manufacturing & export businesses is a rather childish idea.

I don't get his conditions? The leave campaign promises to end free movement which by default also meant no to the customs union. That's what the leavers voted for. It was made very clear! so TM is right to to stick to her guns on this - people voted because of these points.

Labour voters voted leave in high numbers so why doesn't he get it. He's trying to change what what promised to the winning vote

Labour are the official opposition and Brexit is a Tory policy, its up to them to either negotiate a deal that can get through the HoC or revoke A50 as its not possible to achieve.
If we went to the EU with that, the most obvious thing for them to do would be to do nothing and tell us to revoke A50. Why should they bother negotiating at all?

Revoking A50 is what the EU would like and its what remainers would like. Its not a negotiating position. If Labour want to revoke A50 they should just come out and say it but they are too scared to say they want to ignore the referendum result.

Labour wants a different customs union. (Not so new or improved) version of customs union. I only realised this the other day. Anyway, the alt-reality version of CU would mean no FoM. They are playing with unicorns, too.

No comprehension of raison d'etre of EU, at all.

If we went to the EU with that, the most obvious thing for them to do would be to do nothing and tell us to revoke A50. Why should they bother negotiating at all?

Well, it hasn't worked so far has it?

Walking away, very much damages the UK, economically and politically, not least in NI, realistically, it's an empty threat.

Well it's not an empty threat, because it's the default position. It will happen unless we unilaterally revoke A50 or come up with a deal acceptable to Parliament and the EU. As far as the EU is concerned, they have a deal that's acceptable on their side. If we don't accept it, it's no deal. The only reason they have to negotiate further is that they don't want a no deal outcome. If there is no chance of that, they will just tell us to revoke A50. They have to agree to an extension of A50, and they will only do that if there is a chance of a deal. At the moment, there is a complete impasse and no chance of a deal.

Well I know this doesn't seem to be a popular opinion but I think he is. Everyone was banging on about him being a Brexiteer and why doesn't he oppose Brexit. Well surely by ruling out no deal he is signalling he won't tolerate Brexit at any cost, something the ERG want and TM is prepared to gamble on.

I don't buy this 'it's a negotiating tool'. It's getting dangerously late and it's not worked so far has it? 😂. That's what all that 'no deal is better than a bad deal' was about. The truth is it might damage the EU but it will damage the UK a lot more. The time for it being a bargaining chip has gone! They've said they're not budging. We are crashing out with no deal if she carries on like this.

noodlenosefraggle

It is only the default if May chooses it to be so.

I would like to know why she and others are risking NI peace and JIT manufacturing for what exactly? these people wont be losing their jobs and going into debt.

She went to the EU with a series of strict red lines which completely hamstrung the deal the UK could have got.

At the end of the day, if we cannot secure a deal which does not leave us worse off than in the EU, then the UK must revoke and have a serious re-think about what it wants from its relationship with europe.