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Brexit

Westminstenders: May plays Sale of the Century

946 replies

RedToothBrush · 28/11/2018 12:17

Theresa May is currently in the midst of a campaign to sell her deal to the public. Unfortunately she appears that there are only 649 people she needs to sell it to, and that's not going so well.

She attempted a sales pitch to potential Labour rebels and succeeded in getting them to actively decide to vote against her.

There are currently 100 backbench tories who have stated they will vote against it, which makes parliamentary maths very difficult.

There is a rising support for plan b in the form of Norway Plus. This may make Remainers less likely to vote for a deal but persuade some leavers to back May.

The ECJ A50 Court case has been heard. Judgment has not been given yet. Its due 'soon'.

Next week the Withdrawal Agreement will be debated in Parliament with the vote due at 7pm on Tuesday 11th December.

Expect a rough couple of weeks.

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RedToothBrush · 04/12/2018 15:48

War with Spain anyone?

ukdefencejournal.org.uk/spanish-ship-sails-through-gibraltar-waters-playing-spanish-anthem/
Spanish ship sails through Gibraltar waters playing Spanish anthem

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DGRossetti · 04/12/2018 15:48

Freeman and Letwin are known for being May loyalists.

Well, after Freeman and Letwin loyalists, naturally.

DGRossetti · 04/12/2018 15:50

And so it would seem that the effect of Grieve III would be create a further parliamentary step in the process

Surely we are approaching the realm of the indivisible ? How many more steps can be introduced ?

I suspect the aim here is to bore the world until nobody cares what the end result is.

Motheroffourdragons · 04/12/2018 15:50

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

RedToothBrush · 04/12/2018 15:51

Brexiteers are taking the Grieve Amendment proposal well:

Steve Baker MP @SteveBakerHW
Grieve's Amendment D if passed allows for an amendable motion 21 days after a Government defeat of their dreadful deal

Whatever the outcome of the amendment, it is not legally binding on the PM.

Acts are law, motions are motions. The executive still decides how to proceed.

Ian Dunt @IanDunt
Astonishingly undemocratic. If the govt were to ignore the will of parliament on an issue of this magnitude it would trigger a constitutional crisis.

The hypocrisy of someone who campaigned for parliamentary sovereignty to even suggest such a thing.

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RedToothBrush · 04/12/2018 15:54

DGR, Laura Kuennsberg has already tweeted this:

Tony Grew @ayestotheright
All the constitutional pointy heads having a ball discussing privilege. Everyone else, not so much ...

I think this is lawyers each trying to lawyer everyone else into constitutional crisis oblivion.

Motheroffourdragons, if you are struggling to understand this, spare a thought for how poor Nadine Dorries is coping today.

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HesterThrale · 04/12/2018 15:57

if you are struggling to understand this, spare a thought for how poor Nadine Dorries is coping today.

Or Andrew Bridgen.

DGRossetti · 04/12/2018 15:58

Who's counting angels on a pinhead ?

RedToothBrush · 04/12/2018 16:00

Does this explainer make it easier to understand?

Robert Peston @Peston
The point of the Grieve amendment, that may be voted on today, is to make next week's vote on @theresa_may's Brexit plan more "meaningful" - and to increase the power of MPs to decide what kind of Brexit, or no Brexit, will transpire. The point is that right now if she loses...

...the vote on her Brexit plan, as she is set to do, she has to bring back a Plan B to MPs within 21 days, but MPs have no power to amend or alter that Plan B. But if the Grieve amendment is carried, MPs would at that point have the power to change her Plan B. Now this...

...I am afraid is where it all gets surreal and complicated. PLEASE BEAR WITH ME. For Remainers and soft Brexiters, Grieve's amendment eliminates the risk of a hard no-deal Brexit, because it would give MPs power to vote against a hard, no-deal Brexit. And they believe,...

...probably correctly, that a majority of MPs oppose a hard no-deal Brexit. So the Brexiters of the European Research Group will vote against Grieve's amendment, because many of them want a no-deal Brexit, But they expect Grieve's amendment to carry...

..., given it is likely to be supported by Labour and other opposition parties. So how would and should Brexiters vote next Tuesday if, as expected, Grieve's amendment carries? Should the Brexiters then vote with the government and make sure May's deal is carried - if no-Deal...

...Brexit has been taken off the table as an option? My guess is that May and her whips think that is precisely what Brexiters would and should do - and that they secretly hope Grieve will win. However (and I told you this was mad and complicated) the Brexiters DISAGREE. They...

...say Grieve's amendment gives parliament the power to amend the government's plans but not in a BINDING way. They say the Remainers are wrong, that parliament could not actually take no-deal off the the table. All parliament could do would be to pass a NON-BINDING motion...

...against no deal. Here is the moment of maximum pain for May. In practice Grieve's amendment could - COULD - make the majority against May's Brexit plan even bigger. Because it could increase the motivation of both Remainers and Brexiters to vote against her. I imagine that...

... some time this afternoon the penny will drop for May and her whips about all this, and at that point they will go hell-for-leather to try to kill Grieve's amendment. But make no mistake, if the Speaker allows a vote today on Grieve's motion, it will matter.

PS @paulwaugh tells me that Grieve's amendment has been selected for voting on this afternoon. Very important moment.

This is now more important than the contempt vote.

May losing both votes tonight could be a game changer.

If she were to lose next week's vote too, I'm really not sure where May could go with things.

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RedToothBrush · 04/12/2018 16:05

And so we are into a filibuster situation again

Stewart McDonald MP @StewartMcDonald
Tory Whips doing the rounds of Parliament trying to cobble together a majority on their own side to prevent contempt proceedings. In the Chamber they are dragging business out by reading Whip’s office briefings and quoting from the 17th edition of Erskine May to buy time.

I apologise, I'm not watching the debate myself right now. DS has taken over the tv.

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DGRossetti · 04/12/2018 16:06

If she were to lose next week's vote too, I'm really not sure where May could go with things.

Which people have been saying on a 1/52 basis for a year ...

Sorry, I won't believe it until her head is clear of her body. She really is the undead.

RedToothBrush · 04/12/2018 16:06

Jessica Elgot @jessicaelgot
Only Tory MPs have been called for the last 45 minutes of this contempt debate. We really do need to move on...

(that was 10 mins ago - so looks like we have 35 mins to run on the contempt debate, before the main debate on the WA).

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Grinchly · 04/12/2018 16:09

I'm rather enjoying the debate actually Blush
There has been much confusion amongst the non-lawyers about disclosure and privilege.
I am coming to the view that the gov's amendment is probably the right way to go. There is scope for the setting of dangerous precedents.

RedToothBrush · 04/12/2018 16:09

The BBC have lost the battle to get the May / Corbyn debate on Sunday. ITV have won it.

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OhYouBadBadKitten · 04/12/2018 16:13

I should have given the tv over to dds gaming this afternoon. I ousted her from it and now I regret spending my hours listening to this legal spaghetti.

RedToothBrush · 04/12/2018 16:15

Heather Stewart @GuardianHeather
New: Leader of the House Andrea Leadsom has written to Privileges Committee chair Kate Green, saying, “The govt is concerned that the recent use of motions by humble address undermine good government in the national interest” - and calling for an inquiry.

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RedToothBrush · 04/12/2018 16:16

OYBBK, I've just wrangled back control of the remote. I've had it on for 5 mins and I'm regretting it.

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DGRossetti · 04/12/2018 16:18

The BBC have lost the battle to get the May / Corbyn debate on Sunday. ITV have won it.

If you want portents, that's it. The Brexit Broadcasting Corporation has lost it ...

OhYouBadBadKitten · 04/12/2018 16:20

There are so many uppity arses speaking now.

1tisILeClerc · 04/12/2018 16:20

Can't we just settle this with an old fashioned military coup?
The Girl Guides could manage to beat this lot.

Grinchly · 04/12/2018 16:21

RTB - Labour have run out of speakers.

RedToothBrush · 04/12/2018 16:21

Labour Whips @labourwhips
We expect votes on the contempt of Parliament motions shortly

Laura Kuenssberg @bbclaurak
let's hope so!

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RedToothBrush · 04/12/2018 16:24

Voting has started....

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RedToothBrush · 04/12/2018 16:26

This is the contempt motion now I believe. Result at 16.35

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Grinchly · 04/12/2018 16:27

I bet the amendment will pass, but let's see...